Why the Christian/Judeo/Islamic God?

Facts are facts and by definition can not be refuted. As long as you consider everything you say to be facts there is nothing to refute or discuss.

 

I usually don't participate in things like this, but I found this thread...interesting, I guess would be the PC way to put it. When I read the thread, I had the same response that mama had...Why not. It's a simple question and she gave the most direct, unpolluted answer possible. I guess mama didn't want to play the game, but I have a couple of minutes to piss away before dinner so...I'll play, at least until dinner is done.


Doesn't it seem at least a LITTLE BIT odd that if there was a god, it would be pretty simple to all agree on "the one true god"? When have humans agreed on anything? God is so important to a vast majority that it should be obvious to all that the one true god would reveal itself to all people all over the world, and not by word of mouth since as we all know, humans lie and are capable of unintentionally spreading lies. It would seem to me that any god capable of creating the universe would certainly be capable of appearance and world wide communication. Also capable of not appearing. Please don't come back to me with "who do you think you are to questions gods motives/actions" crap. If he exists and is responsible for my presence, then I'm one of many of his subjects that has the same questions, thats who I am! If i can't question this god then he is a tyrant, not worthy of my adorations. You can question until your nuts fall off...that doesn't mean you're entitled to an answer, or that you'd be able to hear it if you did get one.

So why the CJIG? Why do you believe in this god? There is no real evidence of this or any other god. There's no evidence that God doesn't exist either. The bible is not evidence and I won't allow it to be used in this debate/discussion as evidence. The reason for this is to make a point, that point being, you have nothing you can point to (other than the language in the bible) that says your god exists. There is no external, empirical evidence for your god or any other. What solid tangible piece of evidence exists that solidly disproves the existance of God?

Doesn't it strike you as odd that your god hasn't said a word to anyone in over a thousand years? God talks to me all the time...I just had to learn how to listen. Doesn't it strike you as odd that this god (or any other) doesn't talk to ALL people, not just the few "so called charismatic prophets"? You can't blame God if you refuse to listen...that's the whole free will thing...start listening. Why would a god require faith (belief without logical proof or empirical evidence)? If I was a God, I'd require bologna be banned and the Smurfs never to air at the same time as Sponge Bob Squarepants. (Smurfette is hot for a blue chick)

I don't expect any real answers I didn't detect a "real" question, mostly a rambling, angry ...and forgive the assumption, but you do seem angry...diatribe about how you're not satisfied with the CJIG and how your needs aren't being met. because I know there is no evidence for your god or any other outside of language. Your only understanding of any god is through scriptures. Do you have any empirical evidence to support that assumption?

If I were you, I'd just say "fuck the CJIG, I think I'll be an athiest"
What you really want is for someone to provide "proof" for the existance of something you know that there is no "proof" for. What the fuck is that...what's the point?

I'll argue with you if you want...or we can call it debate. In the end it's all the same. So, why not the CJIG.

:beatdeadhorse5:

 

Thanx Cryptoman, well stated.
I've been trying to get Itsdarts to see this for himself, maybe he’ll see it now that you’ve spelled it out for him.

 

I respect your intelligence Cryptoman, and therefore accept that you have put a lot of credible thought into what you said, but this kind of gets to me.
The whole prove God issue; since the OP was focused on one particular God, what makes the Judo/X-tian/Islamic God any more correct than, say, the God of a pagan religion (a pagan religion separate from X-tianity)? You can't disprove the existence of a pagan God any more than that of the J/C/I one.
Either way, the "well, disprove it" arguement doesn't go too far; any belief in the X-tian God (for example) is only as old as the old testiment in reality. So what of the beliefs before that? What of the Sun-God? To scientifically disprove something is to require it to have been held as scientifically true in the first place, no?

(Of course this assumes you were defending the J/C/I God in particular, not the concept of any other God or idea of it; if you were not, disregard this post if you please)

 

BAHAHAHA You haven't tried to get me to see anyting except to whine about my argument and how I handled an off topic post of your girlfriend. The posts by Crypto and Neo are the first real attempts to address my post and I'll reply to them shortly.

 

Thanks for the reply. Its an honest reply not requiring the use of the bible. I will agree that some of his teachings are OK, and if I believed in spirituality (what ever that means) I would agree its not the only teachings or path one could follow. Also can't argue with the fact that you (as were most) christians indoctrinated with a Christian belief. Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus? Do you accept him to be "God" who created the universe? Or do you just like the teachings?

 

Thank, and maybe after my reply, you'll continue to play.... To shorten the reply, I'll only reply to the bolded sections.

We all agree the earth isn't flat (finally) and we all agree that anyone who doesn't think so is an idiot or lives in a tribe in some remote place on earth who never had the education to explain that to them. But that's neither here nor there, an all powerfull god would have the ability to convince us all. Not one single god has ever done such a simple feat. Infact those remote tribes I talk about have no clue about this god.

Thats rather obvious.

If I'm not entitled to an answer then I concider him a tyrant and/or a prick because I'm not the only one with questions. If you can't question your leaders, you're living in tyranny.

Yeah I know, and there is no evidence the Vishnu doesn't exist either. Lame.

Same as above, so why this god or any other god? There is no evidence for any of them.

God talks? Please record it for everyone. What does he sound like? Is this some poetic thing like "you gotta listen with your heart"? Sorry, my heart is not a listening device, its a muscle. I listen with my ears and process the sounds with my brain. If you mean something like "signs" then what makes you think its god and not freak coincidence, which the world is full of. And whats to say that people of other faiths don't hear or listen like you to their god?

Again with this listening thing. Either he speaks and I can hear him or he doesnt speak, thus I can't hear him. My hearing is fine, so he must not be speaking to me.

cute dodge to the question.

 

You really just don't get it.

From the start I’ve tried to show you that the problem with this whole thread is that you weren’t truthful when you said you wanted a discussion, all you wanted was a medium to be dismissive to those who don’t agree with you.

Basically you’ve made yourself deaf to those who don’t happen to agree with you. A shame really, there is so much that can be learned from those who disagree from you.

 

I dont believe in the whole "one and only Son of God who died for our sins because if he didn't we would all burn in hell for eternity" thing. I think he achieved a state of consciousness that is acessible to us all.

I can honestly say that if I were born in India, I would probably be hindu, or if I had happened to be born in Saudi Arabia, I most likely would be a muslim, and so on and so forth. I have no problem conceding that. However, I believe that all of these various religions are individual attempts to address the same thing, or parts to a whole.

It's like that metaphor of people climbing a mountain. They may choose different paths, but eventually they still get to the top.

 

The reason why so many different people have different Gods or versions of God, or understandings of God, is because they're all approaching God through the intellect. And the intellect can only present us with a particular (and incomplete) perspective of something. It is incapable of letting us know something in a wholistic way.

God will never be discovered via the intellect and that is why no evidence will ever seem good enough. Something within us recognizes that whatever we see is incomplete and inadequate. As a response to this frustration, some people seek out other religions or spiritual paths, others throw their hands up and become atheist, and yet others just shrug and say I don't know (aka agnostic).

But we all have an automatic and immediate connection to the awareness of God (although I hate to use this term anymore because it's been so overused and misused), except we come to know it when we stop thinking and tune in to Being. Many people have no idea that there is something beyond the realm of mind and mind activity. To them the Brain is the end-all and they are so immersed in thinking that they literally can't fathom anything outside that. That is why they will never know God, not until they glimpse what is there outside the paradigm of mental noise.

So why the Judeo/Christian, Islamic, Hebrew, whatever God? It doesn't matter. All these are simply concepts about it, not "It". We can discuss God all day long, every day, for eternity, and we will NEVER come to know anything because we're so enamoured with the mind asking its questions. We worship the MIND, the ultimate false idol.

 

Seriously, I didn't give my response that much thought. It was kinda off the cuff and I really was just killing time before dinner. I don't really take religion seriously enough to debate or defend any position. I think people should be allowed to believe what they believe. Therefore mama's response "why not" really does capture the essence of what I feel. Nothing "right" or "wrong" about it. It just is. :cheers2:

 

Works for me, man, cheers!

What you're looking for is some kind of insightful answer to why a person who has done a lot of spiritual and scientific contemplation would come to the conclusion that the J/C/I God is real?
I'm not sure you would find one. It seems like a good portion of the insightful people wouldn't be following a religion by every word of it's holy book. I doubt insightful people would try to force their beliefs on others, or would truly believe in something rather unthoughtful. I think you really want to go after the ones who don't really think over their faith well, but would kill others to defend it.

I kind of wish there was a way to do a field study on humanity's link to the belief in god. My theology teachers loved to point out that faith occurs in every society eventually, regardless of the geographical separation between the societies of the world, and I'd love to see if it's true. I mean, atheism could have resulted to counter a belief in god, not vice-versa, but meh.

*the thing about not affecting those with different beliefs is that it's not really possible at this time, though I wish it were. It goes back to law; several of our laws are based on defending the basic human rights of each individual in society. We determine what are basic human rights through ethics and morality, which is usually directly linked to one's philosophical beliefs (or at least they're religion tries to push it's version of morality on them; I'm sure you could still find a Catholic schoolgirl that's pro-choice). The people who pass and propose laws are voted into office by those who agree with their ideals. So then you have to follow laws that you may or may not agree with; several of the U.S.'s basic laws are rooted from Puritanism, for instance. With a system of government that is non-dependent on human leadership, one wouldn't have to worry about being forced to follow the ideals of others.
I mean, I know you just meant individuals who try to say "Believe in my God or you're going to hell, fool/repent sinner" and whatnot, but I just felt that was something worth typing out. Anyone who does that is probably not going to listen to what you, or anyone else has to say, though

 

But dear Good Fellows, is the common experience of different religions or even communities on various locations on the 'Globe' a meta-physically representable Experience for the same God?

Maybe now it is better to empahsize that it is not. And if the world believes in one common 'God' as some Ecumenical Council would claim then that god is dead, and look for the true God in the distinct external from internal attitudes of Faith depended on the History of these various people's griefs and sex. No, that is not allowed. There is the other option to the distinct external Anthropology of peoples' Culture and Morals from the internal attitudes of indetermined Unfaith.

Faith at a lasting difficulty could only prefer a Fundamentalist end in the stringent life style just because we can't help with all THIS METAPHYSICAL SPIRIT.

 

I have a questions that has always been avoided.

1.If these events supposedly took place 2000-7000 years ago , what was "God" doing during the 4.7 billion years before that?

2.If "God" created man first , why are there dinosaur fossils that significantly pre-date the first known hominid fossils?

2b.If we (humans) were created just a few thousnd years ago , why are there hominid fossils that go back millions of years?

3.If this theoretical Adam and Eve weren't supposed to eat from the tree , why did "God" put it there , knowing that man has an insatiable appetite for the forbidden?

4.If "God" is real , where did he come from?

5.Why did he put us on the Earth with all these things that can kill us if he loves us so much.

6.Why do christians answer these type of questions with things like: " 'God' has to follow the lawn of existence..etc..etc."

If so , then he's not really the omnipotent force that "he" is thought to be is he?

 

I agree with this


Whatever you want to call it, be it the Christian God, a pagan God or a higher consciousness, it can not be realised within the mind. Only when you go beyond the mind can 'God' be known.

God is within, not without.

 

Any takers ?

 

Sure man, I don't really hold a belief in anything I'm about to say, though.

If God created the universe, he could have likely created it in a state in which all scientific evidence made it look older, no?

What makes you think bones have to be from a dead organism? They're simply oddly shaped calcium deposits. The only way you can actually prove dinosaurs existed is to have one currently existing, who would leave behind the same bones.

Hominids aren't humans. One must prove evolution first to prove the link between modern humans and hominids.

3

Neither particularly sought to eat the apple, but were tempted by the snake. The knowledge they gained through eating the apple is what fueled their further greedy appetites.

New Mexico.

No, but rather seriously, there is no need for a source; X-tians usually state him as beyond time and being, a presence alive and conscious in the past, present and future, at the same time.

Who said that death is supposed to be bad? Life has a 100% mortality rate.

because
1) There's no way they could ever know the answers
2) They've never thought about it
3) This is O.T. biblical stuff that none of them grew up believing anyway (I went to Catholic gradeschool, and every teacher insisted that Adam and Eve was just a made up story, and I shouldn't take it seriously)

Maybe he's so powerful that he feigns weakness.

I agree with kamino agreeing

 

Forgive me for assuming these are debate forums. Forgive me for assuming that any discussion should be in agreement with participants. :toetap05:

 

Interesting perspective and there isn't much to discuss here except, what gives you the idea that Mind is anything other than the product of the brain? Mind is physical and without a physical brain, Mind no longer exists? This can easily be tested in people with brain damage. Destroy a various parts of the brain and you've also destroyed various parts of the mind.

You also seem to be suggesting that there is a god of some sorts? Couldn't it be that the only reason man has thought of gods is because its a way to explain what they don't know? Where did lightening ceom from.... Thor, the Norse god of Thunder. Where do Hurricanes come from? .... Posieden, god of the seas.... etc... The more we learn about the way things work, the more god seems to disappear from the picture. Also, couldn't the god concept be a comforting idea for death? It gives us the notion that one day maybe, if we're good, we can see Aunt Sally and Gramma Jones again.

 

So these bones that form animal skeletons are simply coincidence ?

And "God" made existence in such a way that we would be tricked into thinking it's older than it really is?