GraffitiSoul you sound contemplative almost melancholy. No need to be melancholy! "...a higher social order in which the goods are shared equally by the people" yeah that's the part of the definition that's important that's what we need to strive for forget all that other crap dump all the bad stuff... HonkeyTonk: "So you want to have an argument based solely on the theory of communism?" No. What I want to hear is whether or not people are committed to equality. There's this thread "Who's your favorite communist?" over at Protest where I usually hang out and I said the point wasn't the "communism" of the past but that of the future. Then I asked whether people are committed to equality or not and if not then how much inequality do they think is ok and I didn't get any responses at all. No doubt for good reason because most people are NOT interested in equality because they wrongly believe some "deserve" more and some "deserve" less. This attitude is one of the main reasons we live in a shit world. Shane99x: "Read Animal Farm by George Orwell. A political system will never save mankind." That's right Shane in Animal Farm there was false phoney equality "All animals are equal but some are more equal than others" it was a corruption of their ideal and so it too turned out to be a shit society. You're also correct a political system will never save mankind. That's because a political system is a means not an end and if you don't define what you want to achieve you'll never get there. You've got to have direction -- humanitarian direction -- that means equality and a higher social order and that in turn means true and ideal communism -- not a political or economic but a moral system.
I settle for as much inequality as is in our current state. The idea that somehow every will be equal is foolish to even imagine because it can't happen until we evolve into a higher state, which won't happen for thousands of years if it happens at all.
Nice try but Walter E. Williams is totally lost. Totally lost because he doesn't know where he's coming from and doesn't know where he's going. He doesn't understand what's moral and what's immoral. He's truly a morally lost soul. So where are we coming from and where are we going? The goal of all humanity is satisfaction. Where we're all coming from is a condition of need and where we want to go is to a state of maximum well being. But not just for some. For all. That's the basic concept of MORALITY. How so? Because otherwise anything goes. Anything at all. To live morally each one needs to have concern about his fellow man. Where we're coming from is an immoral society and where we want to go is a moral society. Where all people have the best quality of life. The foundation of morality is not "property" or anything else you can name. It is nothing other than the best quality of life for the greatest number of people. But you will never get there unless you make efforts to that end. You will never have a moral society unless you take from those who have too much and give to those who don't have enough. And that means ideal communism. To work for the well being not just of one's self but for the well being of all. Property be damned. That's not the goal of life. That's not the point of morality. The point of morality is the best for everyone. Not just those that fate decided to bless. Don't follow those who are morally lost. But do try to help them see the moral light.
Socialism is evil, sounds like a nice balanced report. But who makes a rich mans wealth? Socialism is about giving everyone their share as everyone contributes to society and gnerates wealth.
PLEASE. COMMUNISM WILL NEVER WORK. Why? Because not all people are willing to work as hard as the other person. If Person A is willing to work 80 hrs a week and Person B is willing to work 35 hrs a week, why should both "share in the profits"? I agree that capitalism isn't perfect. But it's as good as it gets.
No, if the people are running the buissness, and it's aim isn't profit is it sitll a buissness? And it's quite a depressing world if cpaitalisms as good as it gets.
Well, maybe one day we'll come up with something better. But for right now, capitalism is the best we've got. Unfortunately, capitalism also requires some people to be dirt poor, while others are super rich. The goal, I think, would be that even the "poorest" person in a capitalist society made enough money to survive. So, the dream would be that the poorest person in the U.S. would be someone in Alabama making 23,000 a year or something...heh. Marxism/communism/whatever you wanna call it sounds good in theory. The idea that everyone should be just as happy, everyone be able to have the same amount of money, the same dream, etc., etc. But it doesn't work in real life.Why? Because we're human and we're greedy. We want more than our neighbor has. Also, on another note, even if it DID work, communism would make the world a pretty boring place. How boring would it be if we were all just as rich and everyone had a red bicycle and there'd be no one like M Jackson or Anna Nicole Smith to make fun of? Capitalism is the best system, at least for now. It also isn't perfect. Most likely we'll never be able to have a perfect system because we're human, and as humans, we're greedy and fallible.
Just coz everyone is as rich as everyone doesn't mean they have the same stuff, or the same interests or wahtever.
You have a twisted view of socialist theory. It's about worker's rights. If you don't work, you don't share in the wealth. Except for children, the elderly and the disabled every person who can work will work. Or they will have no rights. Socialism is not about creating a welfare state. It's about giving the working class the power they are entitled to by the work of their own hands.
I guess it would be kind of boring for you and your children to have the resources to access the same education and health care as M Jackson and Anna Nicole Smith. As long as you entertained though, right?
Twisted view. Why would Person B get a share of the profits? What you've just discribed is the current capitalist system. Person B coasting off the labor of Person A. Read up on a topic before deciding to throw in your 2 pennies please.
This is a common misunderstanding of socialism. Contrary to what many people (including Stalin and Mao) would have you believe socialism and communism are not pro big government. In the ideal communist society there is no need for or want of a central government. The majority of civic affairs would be handled at the local level by a committee of elected workers with economic security for their local area being their prime focal point.
There is nothing nice about Communism, I don't want to be equal to anyone. Why would i want to be? I want to be better than as many people as possible, because that is advancement.
For a start think about satasfaction, do you get much out of flipping burgers? Also prestige and respect, they would still be associated with the 'top' jobs.
Communism is as i say the final stage, in socialism wages won't be exactly the same for everyone, but they will be much closer. Like you might be paid marginally ebtter wages than someonelse, but the workers themselves will set the wages.
Sorry, not as individuals, the workers of all industry, collectivley, via workers councils, (soviets).
Lenin didn't really have control like stain and krushev, he was basically there because the soviets kept him there. I have no time for brutal tyrants such as stalin and mao who did horrible things in the name of socialism.
