Why Isn't Homosexuality Considered A Disorder On The Basis Of Its Medical Consequence

The definition of disorder, as I understand it and use it, is a: condition in which there is a disturbance of normal functioning.

I think semantics has caused a problem here.

For instance, there is no disorder present simply by being a smoker or by smoking. Smoking, however, does lead to lung disorders.

Using the same logic, I am asserting that homosexuality, or funky-butt-love, which is really the issue, is not a disorder. Persons can engage in anal intercourse with completely normal functioning of their mental and physical being. I agree that this CAN lead to disorders, I disagree that it is in itself a disorder.

No need to apologize or explain yourself with regard to homophobia. This is a debate...your opinions have been completely valid, and non-cofrontational. If someone were to be offended by your posts, it is obviously THEIR problem.

What would having a guy masturbate into my anus do?

I would prefer they "sink the ship," so to speak...

(and for the record, I do not have any bowel disorder, and don't know of anyone personally with "gay" bowel disorder. I have only heard anecdotal reports of a friend of a friend of a friend, and I work in healthcare!!!)

 

post duplicated...

 

I respect your opinion Photogra.. .. and I do get what your saying.

I think I 'ranted myself out' for now lol

 

(errr.. though i dont know what 'sink the ship' is.. and i probably should not know lol

 

this thread is gay


now that the obligitory gay comment is out of the way, allow me to say french affair isnt really canadian, he's only pretend canadian.
i would also liek to point out women fist aswell, and hetro sexual men also enjoy the pleasures of anal play.
all arguements presented in the original post are easily dismissable and moot.

french affair, might i remind you, your mother was a hampster, and your father smelt of elderberries.

 

I'm not agreeing with French affairs deeply prejudiced post, but I have considered the idea that maybe gayness could be a psycological "disorder" picked up through childhood.
A way of dealing with not matching up to the expectations of your gender, maybe not associating with the parent the same sex as you, I got some pretty dirty gay stuff going on in my head, this isn't a homophobic rant, but I have seriously thought about whether or not this could be a subconcious reaction to my never having measured up to society's ingrained image of what men are supposed to be. Its easier to deal with that if you're mind moves the goalposts for you. Or the fact that until recently, I couldn't visualise being manly enough to attract or satisfy a hetro women. Plus my dad's an idiot I don't want to know. If I had to choose one of my parents to emulate, it would have to be my mother, doesn't father-son stuff give developing kids their idea of what their gender are supposed to be like as adults, what if you prefer the opposite example? Surely that'll really affect you. I don't think being gay is entirely inate in anyone, but I'm not sure

People shouldn't have to consider society's gender expectations, but we do. Especially when growing up, it affects you. Other gay teens I know found growing up feeling different has left them a little damaged. To be an iffeminate straight guy, is not to live up to what straight women (mostly) find sexually attractive. If you are gay, you have no real pressure to be macho (although it's still attractive). You've already opted out of being the manly man society says you should be. Isn't it less painful to be more acceptably different? (e.g. ifemminate and gay)

I'm not saying anyone chooses to be gay to fit in (lol), but I think during childhood you're subconcious may be influenced by feelings of not being what you're supposed to, and that may affect your fantasys and therefore your orientation.

I've recently had my first hetro experience, and though I'm enjoying it immensly, I'm more insecure with her than any of my male lovers because
1-men are easier to please
2-more gay men are attracted to non-macho guys than straight women. (on a purely physical level)
So I feel less attractive to her, and all women basically.(physically)
I'm loving my newfound straight relationship (esp. cos she knows everything about my gay history, and isn't bothered) but I feel more pressure with her to be manly, have a big dick, etc. to keep her satisfied. I'm working on it, but I know she (and many, many straight women) Want a dominating force of strength and power, it's a vibe thing. Women do want (again physically)the manly wild stallion with a huge dick. If you are the receptive one of a gay couple it is far less important. Did my mind choose to go with what I could be good at?

Not adult thinking, I know (personality IS far more important, society's expectations are stupid, the macho man that men are supposed to live up to is usually a jerk,etc.)
But it's childish thinking that rules so much of you're development, being as you're always young when you develop who you are. I'm pretty happy to be me now (whatever that turns out to be) but I wasn't always.

I'm not saying people shouldn't do what they want (god knows I do) but maybe people should think why they feel the way they do? Is gay natural, or is it something that happens to people, for different reasons, as they grow up?

 

Leading phyciatric, psychological, and medical organizations state homosexuality is not a disorer.

AMERICAN PSYCHIATRIC ASSOCIATION á "The potential risks of 'reparative therapy' are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient. Many patients who have undergone "reparative therapy" relate that they were inaccurately told that homosexuals are lonely, unhappy individuals who never achieve acceptance or satisfaction. The possibility that the person might achieve happiness and satisfying interpersonal relationships as a gay man or lesbian is not presented, nor are alternative approaches to dealing with the effects of societal stigmatization discussed ... the APA opposes any psychiatric treatment, such as 'reparative' or 'conversion' therapy which is based on the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based on a prior assumption that the patient should change his/her sexual orientation. á "There is no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of 'reparative therapy' as a treatment to change one's sexual orientation. It is not described in the scientific literature, nor is it mentioned in the APA's latest comprehensive Task Force Report, Treatments of Psychiatric Disorders (1989). á "Clinical experience suggests that any person who seeks conversion therapy may be doing so because of social bias that has resulted in internalized homophobia, and that gay men and lesbians who have accepted their sexual orientation positively are better adjusted than those who have not done so."

AMERICAN PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSOCIATION á "Even though homosexual orientation is not a mental illness and there is no scientific reason to attempt conversion of lesbians or gays to heterosexual orientation, some individuals may seek to change their sexual orientation or that of another individual (for example, parents seeking therapy for their child). Some therapists who undertake this kind of therapy report that they have changed their clients' sexual orientation (from homosexual to heterosexual) in treatment. Close scrutiny of their reports indicates several factors that cast doubt: Many of the claims come from organizations with an ideological perspective on sexual orientation, rather than from mental health researchers; the treatments and their outcomes are poorly documented; and the length of time that clients are followed up on after treatment is too short. á "In 1990, the American Psychological Association stated that scientific evidence does not show that conversion therapy works and that it can do more harm than good. Changing one's sexual orientation is not simply a matter of changing one's sexual behavior. It would require altering one's emotional, romantic and sexual feelings and restructuring one's self-concept and social identity.

AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION á "Most of the emotional disturbance experienced by gay men and lesbians around their sexual identity is not based on physiological causes but rather is due more to a sense of alienation in an unaccepting environment. For this reason, aversion therapy (a behavioral or medical intervention which pairs unwanted behavior, in this case, homosexual behavior, with unpleasant sensations or aversive consequences) is no longer recommended for gay men and lesbians. Through psychotherapy, gay men and lesbians can become comfortable with their sexual orientation and understand the societal response to it.Ó

AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS á "The psychosocial problems of gay and lesbian adolescents are primarily the result of societal stigma, hostility, hatred and isolation. The gravity of these stresses is underscored by current data that document that gay youths account for up to 30 percent of all completed adolescent suicides. Approximately 30 percent of a surveyed group of gay and bisexual males have attempted suicide at least once. Adolescents struggling with issues of sexual preference should be reassured that they will gradually form their own identity and that there is no need for premature labeling of one's sexual orientation."

 

What Is Sexual Orientation?

Sexual Orientation is an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual or affectional attraction to another person. It is easily distinguished from other components of sexuality including biological sex, gender identity (the psychological sense of being male or female) and the social gender role (adherence to cultural norms for feminine and masculine behavior). Sexual orientation exists along a continuum that ranges from exclusive homosexuality to exclusive heterosexuality and includes various forms of bisexuality. Bisexual persons can experience sexual, emotional and affectional attraction to both their own sex and the opposite sex. Persons with a homosexual orientation are sometimes referred to as gay (both men and women) or as lesbian (women only). Sexual orientation is different from sexual behavior because it refers to feelings and selfconcept. Persons may or may not express their sexual orientation in their behaviors.

What Causes a Person To Have a Particular Sexual Orientation?

There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation; most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality. In summary, it is important to recognize that there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people.

Is Sexual Orientation a Choice?

No, human beings can not choose to be either gay or straight. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early adolescence without any prior sexual experience. Although we can choose whether to act on our feelings, psychologists do not consider sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be voluntarily changed.

Can Therapy Change Sexual Orientation?

No. Even though most homosexuals live successful, happy lives, some homosexual or bisexual people may seek to change their sexual orientation through therapy, sometimes pressured by the influence of family members or religious groups to try and do so. The reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable.However, not all gay, lesbian, and bisexual people who seek assistance from a mental health professional want to change their sexual orientation. Gay, lesbian, and bisexual people may seek psychological help with the coming out process or for strategies to deal with prejudice, but most go into therapy for the same reasons and life issues that bring straight people to mental health professionals.

What About So-Called "Conversion Therapies"?

Some therapists who undertake so-called conversion therapy report that they have been able to change their clients' sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Close scrutiny of these reports however show several factors that cast doubt on their claims. For example, many of the claims come from organizations with an ideological perspective which condemns homosexuality. Furthermore, their claims are poorly documented. For example, treatment outcome is not followed and reported overtime as would be the standard to test the validity of any mental health intervention. The American Psychological Association is concerned about such therapies and their potential harm to patients. In 1997, the Association's Council of Representatives passed a resolution reaffirming psychology's opposition to homophobia in treatment and spelling out a client's right to unbiased treatment and self-determination. Any person who enters into therapy to deal with issues of sexual orientation has a right to expect that such therapy would take place in a professionally neutral environment absent of any social bias.
Is Homosexuality a Mental Illness or Emotional Problem?

No. Psychologists, psychiatrists and other mental health professionals agree that homosexuality is not an illness, mental disorder or an emotional problem. Over 35 years of objective, well-designed scientific research has shown that homosexuality, in and itself,is not associated with mental disorders or emotional or social problems. Homosexuality was once thought to be a mental illness because mental health professionals and society had biased information. In the past the studies of gay, lesbian and bisexual people involved only those in therapy, thus biasing the resulting conclusions. When researchers examined data about these people who were not in therapy, the idea that homosexuality was a mental illness was quickly found to be untrue. In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association confirmed the importance of the new, better designed research and removed homosexuality from the official manual that lists mental and emotional disorders. Two years later, the American Psychological Association passed a resolution supporting the removal. For more than 25 years, both associations have urged all mental health professionals to help dispel the stigma of mental illness that some people still associate with homosexual orientation.

 

Here are "THE FACTS" about bum sex, according to Sue Johansen, Canadian sex educator and host of "Talk Sex":

At the lower end of the bowel, there are two distinct circular bands of muscles, sphincters, one is located about an 1 ?" above the other. These clamp down tight to prevent the passage of feces or gas. The mucous membrane lining of the rectum is not as heavy as the lining of the vagina, so it can tear quite easily and it does not heal as quickly as the vagina. Because feces, loaded with bacteria, are passing by, any tear is vulnerable to infection.

The vigorous thrusting that may occur during anal intercourse can tear the mucous membrane. This can develop into an anal abscess that can become infected - more about that in a moment. Also, if your partner has any of the sexually transmitted diseases (STD's), then you could get infected through the tear. So we are talking about gonorrhea (treatable); venereal warts (treatable if external, difficult if up in the rectum); syphilis (treatable); herpes (treatment, no cure); yeast infection (treatable); and HIV and AIDS (treatment but no cure.) You do not want any of these STD's.

Preferably, you're in a long-term, committed relationship, infection free, and practising SAFER SEX.

But wait, there's more bad news. A tear up in the rectum can become infected and gradually extend down to past the sphincter, outside the body. It's called a "fissure", and means, if you had diarrhea, you have no control. Puts a whole new meaning to the expression "dribbling shits".

Or, a small tear can gradually extend out through the wall of the bowel and form a channel across, through and into a nearby organ. That's called a "fistula", and it would allow feces to flow from the rectum into the vagina and out.

Repairing tears, fissures and fistulas is delicate surgery and recovery can be long and painful.

Some doctors will tell you that hemorrhoids (piles) could result from vigorous anal sex, and although I have no medical research, I have heard people say that the rectum "gets sloppy", stretched. I am dubious - if this was true, why doesn't it get sloppy with regular bowel movements? With no definitive research, you do the math.

The best prevention is "don't go there". But if you do decide to try it, you and your partner must talk about it beforehand and agree on these points:

1. Your partner must be very, very gentle, absolutely no forced penetration and no vigorous thrusting.
2. You must use lots and lots of good lubrication, (not saliva).
3. Your partner must use a condomÉall the time, every time.
4. Your partner must respect "stop". If you say ouch, or it hurts, or No or quitÉ they must stop immediately.
5. It must be understood, if you do not want to have anal sex again, there will be no pressure, no threats and no pleading. NO means NO.
6. Use a well-lubricated condom without spermicide, either on the sex toy or his penis. Spermicide can irritate the rectum.
7. Never shift from anal sex back to vaginal sex without changing condoms. Feces can end up in the vagina and cause infections.

There are some who really enjoy giving and receiving anal pleasure; some females feel that they have their best orgasms ever; some females oblige simply because their partner really enjoys anal sex; and for other females, it is just gross, embarrassing or disgusting.

For men who have sex with men, it can be very satisfying sex.

 

Regarding the Concessions wrought out by the AMA.

It seems to me they 'had' to find a way to make homosexual behavior 'Not an Illness'.

When I read their carefully (oh so carefully) written 'statement' I swear I can see the Lawyers for 'Gay Rights' groups standing over them.. investigating and reworking the wording over and over.

It reads like that to me.

 

In Response To "Gay Bowel Disease"

This is not a syndrome that has anything to do with "stretching the anus" or anything of that sort. The following comes from the UK association, GPNotebook:

Gay Bowel Syndrome

This is an obsolete, and potentially offensive term, used to refer to a collection of sexually-transmitted enteric infections in HIV infected homosexuals (1, 2).


The infective organisms included in this "syndrome" included Shigella, Giardia, Campylobacter-like organisms, Entamoeba, Chlamydia, gonorrhoea and syphilis.


Reference:
Gazzard, B. (1993), Aids and the gastrointestinal tract. Medicine International; 21:2: 44-46.
J Homosex. 1997;34(2):1-35.

Gay Bowel syndrome is caused by bacteria, not sexual behaivor.
Anyone can contract these bacteria...obviously, and HIV positive patient is more succeptable.

 

This would really be silly, since sexuality is not legally protected in 38 of 50 states. I don't buy into the conspiracy theory...the AMA has little to gain or loose with any statement they make regarding homosexuality, other than their credibility, which I would think would cause them to write as accurate of a statement as possible to summarize their conclusions.

 

Oh yes they do.

The AMA was the world leader in creating the very concept of 'A Homosexual', since they promoted this very word and paradigm to its present popularity.
Somewhere around the late 1970's (early 80's in some areas) there was a 'movement' among 'Gay Activist' groups to have the AMA STOP Calling them mentally ill.

This included near violent (certainly furious) protest outside AMA locales, in front of camera's and numerous 'activist' articles and 'action' plans.
This include the threats of many a lawsuit.

The next year - the AMA suddenly discovered they had been wrong for the last 50 years and actually.. it was NOT a mental illness unless the client himself was personally experiencing problems!

Must have been some amazing research.
They also found they agree with the handful of psychiatrists who, until then, were considered 'rogue' doctors for not treating homosexuality as an illness.

About 5 years go by.. and the Gay Activists found out the AMA was 'getting around' things by treating people only when they 'agreed' that homosexual behavior was personally negative to them.

NOPE!

Suddenly (coincidently at the same time as more lawsuits) the AMA 'discovered', presumably through some new research and studies - Anyone wanting help to end homosexual behavior is sick alright... they need to be cured of their desire to deny being homosexuals.

Its not a conspiracy theory - it is what happened.

 

I can't find any information on protests outside of the AMA. I have read a lot about the protests in 1973 outside of the American Psychiatric Association, and again in 1975, outside of the American Psychology Association. Both protests I read about encouraged the two groups to review existing evidence that showed that previous research on homosexuals was done exclusively on mental health patients. The new research, which is still supported, showed that not all homosexuals were in need of mental health services, and the studies needed to include a representative sample of homosexuals.

http://www.apa.org/pi/reslgbc.html

In December 1973, the American Psychiatric Association's Board of Trustees deleted homosexuality from its official nomenclature of mental disorders, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Second Edition (DSMII). The action was taken following a review of the scientific literature and consultation with experts in the field. For a mental condition to be considered a psychiatric disorder, it should either regularly cause emotional distress or regularly be associated with clinically significant impairment of social functioning. These experts found that homosexuality does not meet these criteria.

http://www.psych.org/public_info/homose~1.cfm

 

I do believe you are right about 1973.
(The 'final blow' coming in the early 80s?)

Yes exactly PhotoGra.

The majority of AMA members were asked to agree with the Psychiatrist who took the 'non illness' position.

The following edition of the 'Book' saw the AMA agreed they would no longer believe Homosexual behavior (itself) regularly caused emotional distress or impaired social functioning.
Therefore.. they would no longer define it as an illness.

Pedophiles Action Groups have dared to try the same things (Nambla being one of them) but they do not have the numbers or social acceptance at all.

Wierder yet.. some Schizophrenics once protested outside my local Mental Health facility.
They were very outraged because they were born this way, were comfortable with it and HOW DARE Psychiatrists label them as "Ill'.

Serious.. this actually happened and the local news gave it 5 minutes or airtime LOL!

Wild stuff

 

Hey, everybody, do yourselves a favor and stop arguing with Quetzalcoatl. His stubborn, bullheaded insistence that anal intercourse among gay men "leads to disorder" while at the same time DENIES with equal bullheaded insistence that the same type of intercourse among heterosexuals "does not" should make it obvious to everyone on this forum that he has an anti-gay bias.

Anal intercourse PERIOD isn't healthy in the long run for anyone. But only a homophobe would argue that it's unhealthy ONLY among gay and bisexual men.

I took a vow to not waste bandwidth arguing with homophobes. As far as I'm concerned, they're just as brainwashed as racists. It's futile to argue with brainwashed people.

-- Skeeter

 

Skeeter:

Why are you deliberately misrepresenting my opinions and posts?

So you can easily 'reject' the fake argument you attributed to me and (you hope) trick others into disregarding my points.

I have NEVER made any such argument that Anal sex is any better or worse when done to a man or a woman.
No such implication, insinuation or slight hint of that from me.

You are either being deliberately dishonest - or you are (for some stupid reason) assuming 'Heterosexual Intercourse' is Anal Intercourse.

Either way.. stop being such a dorkus.

 

I think Quetzalcoatl has made some intelligent points, but that is beside the point...

I disagree with your stance quoted above. I think it stops progress...

It is not easy to debate/discuss with people who disagree with you, but that is what makes it a debate/discussion. It is an exchange of ideas. It is not easy to advocate, it is much easier to sit back and allow the status quo to continue, but this is how real change happens, informing and educating individuals. No policy or law can influence peoples attitutes more effictively than conversation.

 

And I agree with your philosophy of freedom of thought and speech Photogra.

and yes.. that is not dependant on whether I agree or disagree.

To put it in perspective - someone might come here insisting that Homosexuals are more 'evolved' than 'Breeders'.
All of us might find that offensive, stupid and even useless.
However..
Let them speak!

Its ok.. Im not some fragile little faberge egg, who is going to feel 'brainwashing' start happening if a .. shudder.. bad idea is spoken in public!!

Neither are you.

Its 'Official' nowadays, on College Campuses, in Uni's, in Public Schools, 'Sexperts', Popular Talk Shows, The Media outlets, films and so on:
People just happen to be born Gay.
This is perfectly natural, normal and is simply a parrallel to Heterosexuality.
The ONLY thing problematic among homosexuals is when they deny or refuse to embrace and celebrate their Orientation.

This is what is to be thought and said. period.

ANY other view is to be characterised as a mental disorder (homophobia) and that person should keep quiet and seek help.

Well guess what - I would at least like to question these presumptions.

In fact... if we didnt have the right to discuss 'unpopular' ideas - there would have never been any new research done to arrive at THESE conclusions right?

So disagree, tell me Im crazy... refuse to reply if you wish.. but dont censor 'scary' ideas, just because you 'dont like' them.

 

You have the audacity to deny making the following statement:

"Yes, activity can lead to disorder. Behavior can be Disorderly Behavior.
The question we are looking at - Given typical circumstances and without artificial or 'man-made' interventions - will homosexual intercourse lead to disorder. The evidence strongly says - Yes. This is not true for Heterosexual intercourse (with the same standards)."

I repeat for emphasis: "Will homosexual intercourse lead to disorder? The evidence strongly suggests - Yes. This is not true for heterosexual intercourse (with the same standards)."

I interpret "with the same standards" as referring specifically to anal intercourse, since penile-vaginal intercourse is anatomically impossible between gay and bisexual men.

If that highlighted statement made by you doesn't imply that anal sex is worse when performed between men than perfoemed between a man and a woman, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.

-- Skeeter