Why I'm not a Christian

We choose to suffer... we use our circumstances to perpetuate a victim mentality. If you had ever worked with HIV positive orphans in Cambodia, you would know this... they have no homes, no families, no possessions, and they are treated badly... by Western standards, they should be suffering, but they are free and happy.

Look, you're still not hearing me. I'm not saying that there aren't two kinds of karma, or that escaping it isn't the point... I'm just saying that it has the exact same function as sin, which is as a kind of social control.

Do you honestly think that everyone in India is right now as we speak looking for enlightenment? Do you know that Hinduism has a caste system which renders it IMPOSSIBLE for certain people to achieve enlightenment, and that they have to try to improve their karma to actually achieve a favourable rebirth? Why were they born UNTOUCHABLES? Because of bad karma. Because of misdeeds perpetrated in a former life. They are poor because they did wrong. They live on the streets because they killed someone in a past life. They don't have an education because they raped someone two hundred years ago, and haven't managed to work it off yet.

I'm sure your education on the matter is extensive, I mean... you DO have the Internet... but in Buddhism, karma PRODUCES Nibbana... I mean, you need to DO things before you can reach that state-- it's not like you just disconnect from the world and then you're enlightened. If you don't get there through certain types of action, then exactly HOW do you think that someone gets to this state??? By taking ACID??? By putting trippy posters on their walls, getting fucked up, and wearing beaded necklaces???

You have to DO things to get there... things which produce the RIGHT kind of karma... the kind that the 'sacred' texts describe. Basically, you do what they tell you. With the concept of Christian sin, you have to AVOID certain actions, and PERFORM others. Therefore proving my point that both religions are systems of SOCIAL CONTROL...

 

You still dont understand.
One can still DO everything without generating
karma for oneself when they truly have God
realization.
Im not claiming to be in that state myself, just
what it is the path that I am on and this is
apparently the outcome. How do I know anything
that I've never directly experienced is true?
Because to me, it makes sense.
I've never been to Mars, nor have I even seen it
with the naked eye, but Im not going to argue its
existance with someone who claims otherwise.
The point is also, not to disconnect from the world.
This is wholly untrue, false, incorrect, wrong, take
your pick.
The point is to see through, using your inuition,
not your physical eyes, the delusion of dualistic
nature.
Christ said : In this world, not of it.
Krsna also HEAVILY stresses upon the fact that
a yogi must remain in action, but not to remain
attached to the fruits of his/her activity.
We can never 'drop out' of the world, that is
completley rediculous, and if we did we would
not exist.
At every given moment the body is in activity,
and so should we be, but we should wholly devote
everything that we do to God.
THIS is how you stop generating good or bad
karma.
And it has nothing to do with giving up on life.
Accepting what you have is a virtue, not a weakness
man.
A weakness is wasting your life complaining about
your position.
Sure, of COURSE if you are in a low spot you should
do whatever you can to raise yourself and to provide
for your family.
But if you dont devote the material gain of your
accumlated wealth to God, then you are gathering
waves of karmic bond.
The rest of your post is simply rude and assumptive,
and I am not going to take offense nor acknowledge
any further.
Nobody here know anybody else here for who they
really are, so why not quit with your questions like
"take LSD" or "Put trippy posters on the wall"

 

First off, I don't really believe Christ was real, but the character represented by Christ is the shit, think about it he taught forgiveness,love,selflessness,liberation, and practiced it as well. That is what christianity should be about, but no we have to have people following mans laws(old testemant mumbo jumbo,far right wing conservative writers and televangelists) for fucks sakes crack open the book of mark oray?

well thats my piece of the pie peace out

 

I already know everything you've just told me-- I understand that you're supposed to 'put out the flames of desire' and that we live in a world of 'duality'... actually, I heard 'plurality', but whatever...

The most compelling argument I've found regarding what enlightenment is stated that it is actually an infantile desire to negate your own birth, and achieve a blissful 'union' with a God which is, in reality, one of your very first memories-- basically, being in your mother's womb... with all of your needs automatically met, and your not having to do anything for yourself. So basically, according to this argument, desiring enlightenment is desiring to once more become a parasite in your mother's uterus... which makes sense, considering that the enlightened produce actions which generate no karma, much like the foetus generates no real effect on the world, only on the mother.

But anyway, this:

is the strongest bit of your post, so I'll address it.

I can appreciate that using your so-called 'achievements' or 'misdeeds' as a source of either self-congratulation or guilt is probably counter-productive, but in the context of OUR argument (which I understand not as a discussion of the aspects of eastern religions and what they mean or how they can be interpreted, but that sin has the same function as karma in different societies) it seems like this 'explanation' denies that karma manifests itself as an actual set of events, and more like it becomes a psychological weight that we carry... which maybe leads us to sabotage our own future, or become distracted by our own 'greatness', much like xexon is.

While I think this concept is probably viable (mostly because it's less mystical and more in the here and now)... the way I understand it is that most believers accept that karma actually defines the situation of an entire lifetime, and is often portrayed a kind of cosmic punishment for past misdeeds. Of course, it's also your own goddam fault, because what you did got you there in the first place. So really, you're poor because of something you did... so you're stuck with the horrible situation AND the blame.

I think my point about the caste system and how they use notions of karma to suppress certain people is very valid... whether its a quote unquote perversion of the original concept, it oppresses, the same way Christianity oppresses with sin... but at the same time, Christianity at least offers an easy out (let Jesus in and everything's good)... with Hinduism, you could be waiting for a very long time... for example if you're poor, if you're untouchable, or god forbid if you were born a woman.

I suppose you would say that you are supposed to rise above all of this, but honestly... when you have nothing, and you have no way to get anything, except through criminal actions, which of course generate bad karma... HOW are you going to rise above? Capitalism?? Are YOU going to give an Untouchable a job? There's a whole new world of discrimination there. And by getting people to see their situation as just, it squashes the desire to rebel, or to get more... a government controls its people by controlling their sense of who they are, and getting them to accept a certain position and work within it... a karma is a part of how they do it.

As for being rude and offensive with my LSD and trippy posters comments... I'm currently typing this in front of a background with wavy purple patterns, and a banner advertising 'The Ultimate DVD Growing Guide'. Also, the sub forum for this sub sub sub forum is called 'Mind Trips'. I mean, COME ON.

 

The point of going back to your first memory
is not the memory of being woven into your
mothers womb.
It's going back to the source, God, from which
the soul come from.
I'll continue this argument about caste soon
as my work settles down heywood.
As for the LSD comments etc. I dont take it
as actually offensive, I dont know why I even
said that. Stupid me lol.
I just meant that it was sort of a dumb thing
to say, and generalizing, I mean I realize this
is a hippy website, but not all of us are hippys.
Sure I've taken LSD, closer to around 100 times
even, but I do NOT hang posters up in my home.
That is just, so below me :tongue:

 

I think Scratcho has it right. The people who devote themselves to helping others in the name of Jesus are the real Christians, as far as I'm concerned. And it has nothing to do with what label they use, what creeds they profess, what the Bible has to say, or what Jesus said or meant, for that matter. And the Muslims who do likewise are the real Muslims. Ditto for Buddhists, Hindus, pagans,etc.

 

I am a christan because I know christans who do follow jesus earnestly and have devoted their lives to the service of others.

I also see jesus as a soruce of moral guidance.

Eveangelicals are sadly so warped in their overall interpation of the text and fail to see how the religion is for everyone gay, straight , young, old, wise, foolish,l black, white

 

I'm not saying that mystics consciously desire this, but that perhaps the idea of Nibbana is actually rooted in psychological regression... and that 'God' and 'oneness' and 'the end of plurality' is actually a psychological distortion of the first memories... I mean, the unborn child knows only unity, right? He or she is 'one' with the mother... maybe God is a voice you could hear through your mother's uterus, one which your imagination changed into what you 'feel' to be God today.

Just an idea.

 

No a child definitley is aware of itself being
it's own thing, they hear voices from outside
and respond to music and happy sounds as
well as to angry sounds. A baby knows
that it is living off of its mother, but they
obviously cant see anything else.
When the baby is born into the world, the
baby cries while everyone rejoices.
When a person dies, a person should also
rejoice while everyone cries.
Just a thought, too

 

An unborn child is DEFINITELY aware of being its own thing??? Tell me, exactly HOW is this possible??? It has spent its entire life aware only of being a fetus and getting everything it needs from its mother, who it has never even seen... if it has never seen other people, never known what anything looks like... there's no duality when there's no vision or space... and when you think of how different a child's perception of time is versus an adult's, imagine how different a fetus' is from a child's... basically, it's nonexistent. An unborn child lives in a timeless, spaceless world... totally protected and united with everything it knows.

That's Nirvana.

 

That's Nirvana? Being one with everything it's
never seen? Somehow I think that is an
incorrect statement heywood.
A child responds to external stimuli before
coming out from the mothers womb. Just because
a baby cant see the outside world doesnt mean
the baby is not aware of it.

 

For example, my son's grandmother was once telling
me about when she was pregnant with her fist son,
and how when she was at the monterey pop fesitval,
some soul singer (I cant rememeber the name) would
sing to her belly, and he would start kicking wildly.
Then about a year after he was born, she took him
back to the same singer and as soon as the baby heard
him speak he starting jumping and acting crazy.

 

True faith,...does not require an answer (religion). True faith, is confidence in your actions, humility in your beliefs, and trust in the unknowable without religion. The religions of man, are for those who fear the unknown, or wish to find superiority over others.

I am Brian. Founder of the Church of Brian. Follow me,.... but not too close. Because I am not God, or the son of God. I don't even believe in God. If you follow me, remember, I don't even know where I'm going. Ok, maybe "following" is the wrong word. But I have faith. And I'm not affraid of what is to come. I will never claim that my ideas or beliefs are passed down to you from above. No convoluted "new age" theories here. Just plain faith.
Truth-
Judism, Christianity, and Islam have their roots from Egypt. The Egytians had "Gods" that actually spoke to their people. The people would go in the front door, and come face to face with a huge golden idol "god" that would actually speak and tell them what to do and how to live their lives. This was done by a tube that acted like an amplifier. The "preist" would be in the back talking through it. The priest were doing the bidding of the wealthy who owned and built the gods.
The jewish slaves who helped build the gods took this lesson with them into the desert,(with this in mind, read your bible about Moses and especially the book of Joshua)...and the rest is history. But it isn't. The book of Joshua is unresolved in the middle east today.

Join me in the Church of Brian.
Our Manifest-

1. All the laws of man are "man made" and should be made and inforced with humility and always questioned with reason. The only rules not made by man are natural law.

2. No one side of an issue, political party, border, or sports team, can claim to have a devine right. There are NO chosen people. (unless you're talking natural selection)

3. Morality, is truth. All social ills, all problems we have as a society or the world can be solved with reason, faith, conviction and effort.

4. It is time for religion to end.

5. Humor is a way to free your fears, and live in faith.

6. There may, or may not be a "master plan", a "God" if you will. If there were, then man's defining "God" or declairing "his" intent through "religions" would be blastphemous.

7. Their is no number seven, for the time being.

8. Beware of your own personal beliefs. Form your ideals and beliefs with humility. It is too easy to design them to suit your personal fears, greed, or predjudice. Strive to understand balance and the importance of being truthful with yourself. Stive to be wise.
Know that if you (like the Nazi's) rationalize that eliminating one group of people as being best for the rest of mankind, others may more easily feel the same way about you, and your family. Violence does beget violence. Excessive behavior, greed and dishonesty have natural consequences.

9. Brian of Nazareth is not associated in any way with Monty Python's feature film "Life of Bian". Although renting it is highly suggested for all Church of Brian members.

10. There was a number ten, but I seem to have forgotten it. I am only human.

 

Karma is justice without the satisfaction. That's my definition. Not that I believe in it anymore though...


FedUp, was I really ever as bad as heywood? I know you say I cry....but geez....
If I ever get like that, then just flame the hell out of me. It's for my own good.

 

your christ did not come to this world to be worshiped. neither in the body of jesus, nor any of the many other times it has done so (dozzens, if not hundreds of times before, and three for certain since). but rather to pry humanity's head out of its ass. putting the arbitraryness of any idiology, belief, economics or anything else, ahead of the kind of world created by how we treat ourselves and each other, both individually and collectively, is the ass it came, to try to pry humanity's collective head out of.

=^^=
.../\...

 

I have a new answer to the old question: I am not Christian b/c I am not a label, I am not identified w/ a dogmatic set of beliefs which separates us from God, as God is not an entity but rather the awareness we all share. This is how God can be part of all. However, when one identifies God as an entity by assigning dualistic traits (such as all-good), then God becomes a mental conception which one can either deny or attach themselves to. It is the mental conception of God that is unreal, but the Presence of God is, just is. One cannot intellectually understand the formless, which God is, much like space.

Peace and love