Why I'm not a Christian

Why would anything want to be worshipped?And why would anyone want to worship anything?Moreover,why do humans keep talking about these things over and over and over,ad infinitem?Reminds me of the old Tarzan movies where the the natives flop down and start blubbering at the sight of a white man.Worship is a degrading and LAZY WAY OF CONFRONTING mortality and the nature of existence.

 

Dude, I'm a Christian aswell, but that has got to be the most close minded idiotic statement on this whole thread. Everyone has well put together arguments and you expect to gain even a pinch of respect by saying "I'm right you're wrong."?

That's ridiculous, there are good ways to testify and witness, that's definitely not one of them.

 

How can people who so enjoy being mean, condescending pricks possibly believe that they're worthy of doling out any kind of spiritual advice to anyone???

 

I am not mean or condescending. I try to help people understand their faith, something that seems to be discouraged in this day and age. Jesus's original messages have been mistranslated by people who know not of what he spoke. It is good to read into his teachings and relate what he says to the universal truth.

Peace and love

 

I think thats great, but if someone doesn't understand "their" faith (Im not sure where your coming from, but I think of "Christians" who have never had a second thought) then I wouldnt call it faith, and they should perhaps start over, of perhaps simply start their own spiritual journey, for lack of a better way to put it. I agree with you entirely though

 

Although Hippie chick and Fedup want to have intelligent and historical discussions about the nature, start and growth of christianity you have to understand its just not what people want.

Its as simple as that.

Peopel either are brought up with their faith or find it at some point in their lives. Its their belief system and they fear losing it because its what makes sense to them and their world and sense of self may very well crumble if they have thsose foundations shaken.

Also Christianity (like many other religions) are very adamant many times that anything which suggests that which they have not found in the bible or at church and questions what they believe is somewhat evil and a temptation which they have to resist. Like its testing their faith and they win by banishing it as soon as possible.

Temptation plays a big part in most religions.

Until all religions start to believe that its teh head and brain that GOD gave you that leads you to think and that thinking logically is not evil this will always remains teh case.

I have spoken to many christians who feel its the heart as opposed to the head which leads them (I hope they mean that metaphorically because some sound like they really thin the heart is more than an organ that pumps blood roudn teh body). this means any attempts at logical open discussion abotuteh bing bang or evolution or the banished texts from the bible results in emotional responses. Most simply dont wish to talk about those thinigs or think in logical terms because ... well because they think its emotion rather than thought which will lead them to God perhaps?

so my point being. There should probably be an open discussion forum where people can talk about all religions without having all the christians feel like they are being attacked. most christians are good people, HAving said that there are many who aren't and have forgotten that WWJD is not what they are doing.

 

So basically you think that all Christians need your help because they are deluded, and being the wonderful person that you obviously are, you want to take what they believe and make it more like what you believe, because what you believe is the universal truth, and what they believe is bullshit.

Yes, you're right. You're not condescending at all.

 

Russell's essay is characteristically brilliant.

But why do you think jc wanted people to think for themselves and question authority ? that sounds more like Tim Leary to me.

There are passages in the nt which would lead to the opposite conclusion - ' resist not evil', 'render unto ceaser' etc etc. When we get into Paul, there are injunctions for women to be totally subordinated to men, and support for slavery.
I'd like to see some nt passages which support you idea.

 

Let's engage in some critical thinking here.Ouch--never mind--that hurts.

 

I don't think Jesus really had any kind of coherent belief system. He was basically a Jew who hated the Romans, and didn't really like where Judaism was at the time. AND I really don't think it's fair to act like he was some big hippie guru who wanted to spread Eastern mysticism to the Jews-- that's just preposterous.

It seems more like he was just another cult leader with some wacky ideas that was deemed a threat because of growing influence, and then was later raised to iconic status by a commercial-minded Emperor in order to curtail the polytheistic beliefs (and perceived decadence) that had divided his ever-expanding Empire.

But the Christian belief that original sin is forgiven through a messiah is still a valid one that no should discount... however Christianity came to be popularized, there is no denying its effect on our society and our thinking, and I think it's ignorant to dismiss the whole religion based on some narrow-minded perception of its faults.

 

It's the idea of original sin that turns me off to Christianity. IMO, original sin is basically holding the current population accountable for the sins of our supposed ancestors. It is an explanation why we are not one with the Divine within, or "god". This is preposterous. If "god" is a forgiving god as the Christians claim, then original sin shouldn't matter. One would assume this "god" would be willing to not to punish others for someone else's sins.

This leads me to conclude that either a.) original sin was created by a god who is vengeful and not forgiving b.)a belief instilled by a religion who wants to dominate the lives of its followers by claiming "you will not be saved unless you follow our belief system to purge yourself of this original sin". It seems much more likely to be the latter of the two.

I do not feel that I have a narrow mind when it comes to the perceptions of the faults of Christianity. I look for the good and it's hard to find the original messages of Jesus within the bible. These messages have been twisted to rationalize the acts of power crazy leaders of Christianity. Look at Dante's Inferno. He places at least two popes in hell, due to their immoral actions. Most people venerate these leaders based upon biblical descriptions of their grace with god.

Well, that's enough for now.

Peace and love

 

But original sin is seen in different variations throughout all of the religions-- every single one of them involves being tied to the earth by some inadequacy, or striving to overcome some obstacle through a certain type of devotion or behavior. In the east, it's Karma, and in the West it's sin... they're both guilt trips in a way.

I know that karma is good and bad, but at the same time it is a weight, or a burden, or a responsibility... and the only way to free ourselves from the cycle of birth and death is through the restriction of our behaviors and the suppression of certain base human instincts-- to kill, to fuck, to eat, etc...

Basically, religions are a tool to organize human beings into societies-- by forcing them out of their instinctual reactions and encouraging actions which better enable productive co-existence. They are the foundations of culture, which is itself often rooted in ritual, the engaging (producing) of the spiritual or the 'miraculous' through the repetition of certain actions...

So while I definitely don't think they should be phased out or abolished entirely, I definitely think that we would stand to gain a lot through a more critical approach. Basically, I think that we should keep the religions but get rid of religiousness... while at the same time not forcing any specific interpretation on anyone-- let people believe what they want to believe and say what they want to say-- but never completely give yourself over to any one specific set of beliefs.

 

Hmmm interesting what you say about karma and sin being the same I've never seen it that way but find it interesting that someone has.

I think the main difference (and i supposed i do connect the both and believe in both on some level) is that of "original sin". I think the hang up SOME people have of original sin means they're walking around on earth seemingly forgetting that IF the original sin happened it was clearly and obviously MEANT to happen. It was a form of God testing his new machines. (whether you see it as literal or metaphorical IMO it means the same thing)

he gives us free will.

then he says don't use it.

On top of it all he invents temptation.

all the time he knows exactly whats going to happen.

With karma you just simply do your best and move on. You try and do good. Feeling bad or guilty doesn't fit into it in my understanding of it. There's more of a "things are meant to be" philosophy.

People walking around feeling guilt for the original sin is just sad to me as we ALL would have done the same thing. And if someone claims they wouldn't have they're seriously messed up. Its like saying they'd give up free will. Which is fine and dandy and probably a short cut to loss of ego/nirvana/heaven etc. but IMO we're made with the free will chip ingrained in our very nature.

I would have been all over that tree like a mofo. God would've been like no! And i'd've been like "why?" and he'd not tell me because he'd KNOW within two hours of trying to keep distracted i'd be hopping around the tree trying to figure out whats so dangerous about it anyways.

 

The way I understand karma right now is like a kind of currency-- cold as that sounds. Like you get paid for good deeds and IOUs for bad ones. I think sin is supposed to be more static... whereas karma strikes me as more fluid for some reason... I mean, both your good deeds and your bad deeds are keeping you away from God. But both sin and karma are about cause and effect, I suppose... and they're both designed to motivate the individual away from certain actions, and towards other actions.

I think all people probably are governed by different types of causal energy or whatever... BUT the point of original sin is not to make people feel guilty or evil, but to invite them to realize that their guilt is OVER. Jesus died for ALL OF HUMANITY, not just for the people he liked.

The way I see it, Christianity is mostly supposed to make everyone GLAD that this has happened-- it's not Jesus life that was important, because he was just a man... Son of God or no, he was still a human being, as full of contradictions and uncertainty as everyone... maybe moreso, because I'm sure his birthright put a lot of pressure on him!

It was his DYING which cleansed the world of its sin, what led to the forgiveness... maybe because it helped God to understand human beings and what we go through down here, bringing us closer to Him and Him closer to us?

I'm not saying I believe any of this or that I'm defending it-- well, I am defending it, because it seems like a lot of the people here just want to berate the people in the church, or make it more like something mystical, or do this or do that or just outright denounce it because it's not cool to be Christian. Whatever.

All this negative preaching has done is to get Non-Christians (like ME) to start defending people they would otherwise avoid...€

 

Interesting post, although I disagree about Karma being a tool used to keep people from doing bad things. Karma isn't about that. Karma is a law, such as you sow so you shall receive. It's like this: when you plant apple seeds, you don't get carrots. You get apples trees. When you plant carrot seeds, you get carrots. Unwholesome actions produce unwholesome results. Wholesome deeds get wholesome results. It's as simple as that. There is no "bad" or "good" when it comes to Karma. There aren't any IOU's or payment. Some results appear immediately while others appear within a few days, weeks, or even months. Until one becomes completely enlightened, one cannot understand the total complexity of Karma's Laws.

Peace and love

 

Even doing 'good' generates bonds with
more collective karma redpoppy.
The way to God is to stop generating
karma, sat chit ananda.
Just doing good and moving on is most
definitley healthy for your soul, but
there is much more to it than that.

 

Some, like Ramakrishna, use the word 'karma' simply to designate action, as in karma yoga - the yoga of action or work. Probably, many western interpretations of the word are heavily influenced by 'tit for tat' type xian thinking.

 

Bill, when it comes to this board, its not
probably, its definitley, and its not many,
it's all
Or, at least that's what the Stoners
Lounge is like. A war zone. And they say
pot makes us peaceful...Healer of
Nations......

 

Well, pot only brings out more of what's inside - so if people are full of it, it will come out more on pot:H

 

HAHAH! yeah i know how you feel!!! hahahah!

I like teh idea of a clean slat but at the same time I think there is this idea that the passion of christ bring s a guilt and responsibility with it. I could go on to say the whole "Christ as saviour and nothing else" is a little harsh and hate all the loud speakers that preach it in town. Having said that if you dont believe it then it doesn't affect you so it doesn't matter.