Why I don't argue/debate Christians anymore

I thought that the Jews were sent to Isreal because nobody else wanted them in their country so Britain gave them land in Israel, thats what it says in hostory books (well apart from the part of nobody wanting them),no the new "porch was sealed" not the original. Oh i get it, its impossible you are never going to be wrong. You know "your" Bible, not anybodies elses open minded view of things. You know biased history and forget other parts of history. Why is a whole religion based upon one region?? I though God loved the whole world. I would admit it if I actually was wrong, but I would never say i was 100% on anything, buit then again i am probably going to Hell, because I love God, but do not accept the Bible
peacex

 

Sorry it's not just a doorway, it is an addition to a building, that is also Jerusalems East Gate. And my uncle has a porch on the side of his house, so does that not make it a porch. Pleases. Sera, I don't think you are listening. Jerusalems old East Gate, was also a Building. I'm not pulling strings, I'm stateing facts.

 

In case you forgot what the topic of this thread is...

 

Not to mention that even though Ezekiel said no man will enter through it, it seems that many have. It was even opened twice a year by the crusaders. So how does "This gate shall be shut; it shall not open, and no man shall enter by it, because the Lord God of Israel has entered by it; therefore it shall be shut." allow for this:

This prophecy has already been broken. If you want to warp the reality of the situation, by all means - it's your reality to warp. Just don't expect us to be gullible enough to buy this twisted interpretation of the bible, history, and reality.

If the time of the crusaders was 1095AD and it was open then how can this be accurate:

1200 years ago it was 805 AD. BUT the gate has been open since then, as we see in the time of the crusades it was open twice a year. The crusades started 1096 and lasted 250 years ( http://www.medievalcrusades.com/ ). And as we see the gate was finally closed under Turkish rule, which didn't begin until 1517 (http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_brief_history.php), and that is less that 500 years ago. Those numbers blow the accuracy of your prophecy right out of the water

 

as you can see from above, Campbel, you are right, it is completely you own interpretation on history and not the rest of mankind. Just because you read a source does not make it true
peacex

 

The Gate was used many times because it was a Gate, but as you have posted here, the Gate was FINALLY closed under Turkish ruel, and has never been opened since. The fact that it was used in the past does not break the prophecy, because it was a funtional Gate. The prophecy only states, that the Gate would Finally be shut, and not opened again until Christ returns. And that is where we are today. And the prophecy states, that all who would try and open it will fail in their attempts. And that is also true, all attempts to open the Gate since the Turks sealed it have failed. The prophecy stands, no matter how you try and play with the numbers. The Bible could careless about your dates, because no dates are given for it's final sealing. The prophecy only states that the Gate would finally be sealed. And we know that the prophecy is in effect now, because the Jews have returned to Israel, and have retaken Jerusalem, just as the other prophecies said they would.
Sorry Sera, but those are the facts.

 

It was opened twice yearly up to 500 years ago. The attempts to open it since you claimed it was sealed 1200 years ago HAVE been successful.

 

The British got out before any more of their people were killed by the Jews. It was the United Nations that past a resolution that allowed the Jews to return and proclaim statehood in 1948. The Bible states it would be the porch of the Gate that would be sealed. And if you have an open mind you will believe the facts of the matter, and what I am stateing is simple facts. If my facts are wrong, please point out the one's that are. If you love God then you will follow His Word. The Jews are not back in Israel by accident. The Bible states that just before Christ returns to this world, the Jews will return to Israel and retake Jerusalem. It also states they will be surrounded by enemies. The Jews don't know who their God is, but in the Old Testament it states that when they are attacked in the last days by a mighty army from the North, God would defend them and reveal to them who He is. And in the Old Testament it states, that ''they shall look upon Him who they pireced, and shall morn for Him as one who would morn for His only Son.'' It also states that some of the Jews will ask Him, where did you receive these wounds in your hands. Know any historcial figure, who was pireced, and had wounds in His hands? Rember, this was written long before Christ was even born. God does love the whole world, but most of the world hates Him. God tells us that if you love Him you will search for Him. And He also states, that if a man looks for Him with all of their heart, and with all of his mind, and all of his soul, he will surly find Him. Few people really seek God these days. They have replaced Him with vain religion.

 

Actually many Christians and Jews believe the prophecy, it's not just my interpretation. You might consider this one site that speaks off it.

http://www.harpazo.net/easterngate.html

 

Sure. You claim to love God? Do you claim to follow his word?

titus 3:9-11
"9But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. 11You may be sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."

Wow. Look. God was right. You are self condemned: you say if you love God you will follow God's word, but you do not follow God's word!

Matthew 12:37
"For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

It is not yet time to have nothing to do with you campbell. I follow the spirit of the living God's teachings, not just the word of God. If God did not care for you, God would not rebuke you with both the words of non-believers and believers alike.

 

If I said 1200 years ago, I would be wrong, and most likely ment to say around the year 1200 A.D. The Gate was actually sealed in 1187 A.D. by the Moslem leader Saladin. The point of the matter is, the Bible does not give a date for the exact sealing of this gate. It simply states that the Gate would be shut, and it will not be opened again, until the prince to come will open it. The Crusaders left Jerusalem in the year 1244 A.D. which means that Jerusalems East Gate has remained shut for at least, 761 years to date. There have been at least two attempts to open it. Once in 1917, and once in 1967. Both of those attempts have failed. There is nothing that has happened that would nullify the prophecy.
Nothing short of the Gate being destroyed, or someone other than the Prince to come walking through the Gate, could destroy the prophecy.

 

When the Bible made that statement, it was adressing the inner action between other Christians. Yet, when talking about the truth of the Bible with non believers, this should never be considered foolish. Because we are trying to arrive at the truth of the matter. And God never rebukes those who try to reveal His truth, but does rebuke those who would condem them.

 

No, it addresses how you should act towards all men.

Of course, because you are warped and sinful, you ignore the bible when preaching about it, desiring to be a teacher of the law.

 

I find nothing to support there is a god. I find nothing to support there isnt a god. It all comes down to personal understanding and identifying with a definition. Then and only then can we break it down to its smaller parts and search.

I do not identify with modern day religion. I believe a great man came to this earth not the only one mind you. But Jesus is just a man who came and stood out because of his integrity. I grew up Christian and have recently come to the conclusion I was lied to. I am now searching for the truth if it is out there.

There is the possiblity that we are a random accurrence in the universe and lucked out. Just because it was an act of evolution doesnt mean we cant evolve to a great human without religion. Religion is alot of things to alot of different people. We are all at different levels and can only comprehend our individual beliefs with certainty. It is that diversity that still gives me hope. Means man hasnt given up on discerning truth from fiction.

Until that day when we know the truth many will have to believe in fiction instead of steadfastly looking for the truth. ski a great winter.

 

Titus 3:8 states that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. It was adressing believers. And I would agree with not dicussing foolish questions, and works of the law, but then again, I was not adressing the works of the law, and I do not believe the East Gate prophecy is foolish.

 

The reason Jesus stood out, was because He was the only man in history of the world to of fulfill the three hundred prophecies of the Old Testament, and to the letter. This was not an act of luck.

 

As was stated in my post. PROVE IT!!!! I cant. Not from a book of falacy but through methods seen.

 

I will have to disagree with Campbell on this one, and on the entire line of argument for two reasons:

1) OT prophecy fulfillment (true or not) is really a poor apologetic in this case. Point out OT prophecy fulfillment that has been fulfilled already historically if you want to defend Biblical authority.

2) Interpreting scripture through the dispensational premelinial futurist model is poor method of interpretation. Campbell can you demonstrate that the future events described in scripture MUST be happening now (unequivocally) and could have never happened before, and that your method of interpretation is consistent with literature and cultural understanding of the time the text was written?

The Eastern Gate discussion has been going on for a long time in another thread. Please keep it over there.

Sara, do you understand what Jatom is saying? The original idea was that atheists must also take things on faith, just like Christians. In terms of the scientific method, you cannot use the scientific method to validate itself. Nor can you use deductive logic to support it because it is inductive by nature. Does that make it invalid or untrue? No. But it does mean that you must accept, on faith, that it is true.

 

Well, will all the rapist and murders be there to? We don't want to be discriminatory. How about Gacy, we might get to hear how he raped all those guys and buried them in his basement. This should be some heaven, better watch your back.

 

Ezekiel 36,37,and 38. The return of the Jews in the latter days is spoken of in these chapters, with a number of future prophecies spoken of as well.