Why I don't argue/debate Christians anymore

If never taken literally, you will lose most of the truth the Bible conveys.

 

Have to pipe in here. You will lose most of the truth the Bible conveys if you do not read scripture within is historic, cultural, and literary context. This means reading metaphor as metaphor, byperbole as hyperbole, prose as prose, and historical accounts as historical accounts.

Bringing it down to just reading it "literally" versus "non-literally" misses the point and greatly over simplifies the vast literary genres employed throughout scripture.

 

I wonder how you take this literally?

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Psalms 82:6 6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

 

That is what I think Campbell believes... When he says literal he means for example that the stories of the OT are literal and not metaphorical as some believe.

 

Here is the commentary from www.biblegateway.com


Jesus defends his claim using language they should be able to understand, through an appeal to the law. He cites a text that uses the word god of those who are not God: Is it not written in your Law, "I have said you are gods"? (v. 34). It is unclear who is being referred to in Psalm 82:6. Of the several proposals made by scholars (cf. Beasley-Murray 1987:176-77), the most likely takes this as a reference either to Israel's judges or to the people of Israel as they receive the law. The latter is a common understanding among the rabbis (for example, b. 'Aboda Zara 5a; Exodus Rabbah 32:7), but the former is also represented in Jewish interpretation (Midrash Psalms; b. Sanhedrin 6b; 7a; b. Sota 47b). Jesus' explanation that these gods are those to whom the word of God came (v. 35) might point to the Israelites receiving the law. In this case the contrast between these gods and Jesus would be that Jesus is the one who both fulfills the law and is greater than the law. But this expression to whom the word of God came could also refer to the judges (as suggested by the rest of Ps 82) who have received a commission from God to exercise the divine prerogative of judgment on his behalf. The psalm is actually a condemnation of the judges for not exercising their responsibility faithfully, thus corresponding both to the condemnation of these Jewish leaders in John and to Jesus as the true judge.

 

Could you give an answer more vague than that? It says nothing, and certainly does not explain why Jesus said to people: You are gods and the Kingdom is within you.

 

Sorry how about this:

Psalms 82:6-8
Verse 6-8 - It is hard for men to have honour put upon them, and not to be proud of it. But all the rulers of the earth shall die, and all their honour shall be laid in the dust. God governs the world. There is a righteous God to whom we may go, and on whom we may depend. This also has respect to the kingdom of the Messiah. Considering the state of affairs in the world, we have need to pray that the Lord Jesus would speedily rule over all nations, in truth, righteousness, and peace.

 

jd4u could you perhaps explain those three passages using your own reasoning rather than running to a website to explain "your" thinking?

 

I wonder why this is a case of "language they could understand" but genesis is not. Eh?

 

Right, so he believes in a literal Adam with a literal Eve and a literal talking serpent, in a literal garden with a literal tree of life and tree of knowledge of good and evil.

However, what we have here are two historical, real people (they consistently appear in geneologies) surrounded by metaphorical images. The tree of life appears in Genesis and Revelation. In both cases, it is used metaphorically. The serpent doesn't tell us what Satan looks like, the depiction of the serpent tells us what Satan is like. The Genesis account tells us what happened, but gives us precious few details. It uses metaphorical language to provide clear and provocative imagery without having to delve into blow by blow biographical accounts.

This is consistent with the genre of the time and within the text itself.

So no, it isn't just "literal" or "non-literal." Some Old Testament accounts of some things mix non-literal elements with literal ones (the Fall being the most prominent one).

 

And this is why the God of the Bible declares that the natural man will not understand the things of the Spirit. When you believe that the Bible must be look at in it's historical, literary context, cultural, metaphor, ect. ect. ect. you lose it. The truth of the Bible will never be understood by any humanistic means, because it's hidden truth, is revealed only by Godly revelations. It is God's Spirit that reveals it's deeper secrets, and the Bible will not be understood only by human wisdom or understanding. The Bible is not like other Book's. And this is why you hear Christians speaking of it as God's living Word. It was Christ who stated that unless we humble ourselves as little children, you will not enter into the Kingdom of God. God's simple truth is often overlooked by this world, because the world over complicates it's understanding of God's revelations. The World often looks to other men, rather then God's Spirit for knowledge. And this is why the world knows very little about the prophecies of the Bible, because they only understand the Bible through their human filter.

 

If you had considered what I had stated, ''if never taken literally?'' Another words, there are times when scripture speaks in ways that are not literal.
Yet the verse you present her can be. Christians have become the Sons of God, there future existance will be forever without end. Their future existance will be God like. When a person becomes a Christian, God's Spirit enters their body, thus the Kingdom of God is within them. And that is how you can take those verses literally. When the Bible speaks literally it is obvious, and when it speaks otherwise, this to is obvious.

 

Its doesnt say Sons of God though, it says gods. And are there different kingdom's of God? Because the bible also says 'thy kingdom come", as in the future and something that surrounds you. But now its already there, within those people.

 

So it is okay to interpret metaphor as fact? So, is Christ a human, a literal lion or a literal lamb? Oh yeah... and Satan IS a literal, actual snake. Oh yeah, and Christ has a doorknob somewhere on his body... He said "I am the door."

Hogwash! You, Campbell, pick and choose how you wish to interpret. That is NOT how to read any ancient text! That includes the Bible!

So we just drop our brains at the door? Sorry, while I agree that non-Christians fundamentally don't "get it," the arguments and articles that I have presented are from Christians. We rely on receiving God's wisdom given by Scripture, but, unless you apply a strict method of interpretation, the book becomes awash with contradictory interpretations that are based solely on the subjective experience of God leading them. How do you then say that a Mormon or JW or anyone else's is incorrect. Here's a pickle for you:

The Spirit has led me to the understanding that in order to have the fullest and most accurate understanding of the Bible we must read it in literary, historical, and cultural contexts.

And does it say that we have to remain as little children?

And you don't? What about pastors and spiritual leaders? Do you look to them for knowledge? God is the ultimate source for knowledge, but that doesn't make human sources irrelevant.

The fact is that the Bible IS a complex book. Not everything is a simple truth, especially not prophecy that is written in an apocalyptic style similar to the old testament prophets in themes and styles using colloquialisms in order to portray the essence of the things to come, not to provide a blow by blow narrative of literal events.

Everyone has a human filter. Even you.

Premellinial dispensationalism is keyed on the idea that God has two people... an earthly people and a heavenly people. Please provide scriptural support for this idea.

 

Well specifically a JW, all you need to ask is who created the world?.... they just believe that it was the father alone and that Jesus was just a prophet and not God. In reality what the bible states is that Jesus was before creation. This contradicts their belief.

 

When you ask Jesus Christ into your heart, His Spirit enters your body. Who really knows the depth of God's Kingdom, for even those who followed Jesus asked Him to speak of heavenly things. Christ said, ''I tell you of earthly things and you don't believe me, how can I tell you of heavenly things?"

 

I don't go to church, so I have little influnce in my life from other men.

When it comes to picking an choosing, always believe what is obvious and plain, and when it comes to things not made plain, it is always obvious, and will require a deeper search. Here is where the Holy Spirit enters the picture. And this is when you need a teacher.

Many have ruled out the Bible by saying it is all metaphore. The Bible requires a balanced approach.

JW's rewrote their bible, and if the bible did not agree with their doctrine, they either changed the wording or removed the verses.
Mormons came up with another Book that now overshadows the Bible, not the other way around. Also the Mormons orginal new interpitation that went beyond the Bible stated that unless a man had multiple wives for bareing children he would be dammed for all eternity. This again, was not supported by Scripture.

The Bible is only complicated if you do not have the Spirit of Gods instruction. It is impossible to understand through human imput only. That's why the Bible states that God's Holy Spirit will teach you. These are not just empty words. God spoke the truth. Much of what I know about the prophecies about America, came from His instruction. For at the time I learned these things, most Christians in America were unaware of this understanding. This is now changing.

 

why dont you keep holy the sabbath?

A fundementalist Christian, disbelieves evolution, believes genesis and revalation as well as *most* of the bible word for word, but doesnt go to church. So screwy.
Whatever man.

 

Read Joseph Campbell.

 

Trust me, ive asked, plenty of times.