Why I am not an Atheist.

I'd just like you to know, Reefer, that I respect your beliefs - Just to clear the air.


"I think it's quite ironic and humbling that the one thing that exists beyond doubt is something metaphysical, consciousness."

Like you, (probably), I believe that the universe works under metaphysical conditions, not material.

 

Also, many people don't understand that scientists aren't as trustworthy as we'd like to believe. They goto college for years, put on a fancy lab coat, and suddenly that person loses human nature. Don't believe for a minute that just because someone is a scientist, doesn't mean they don't have an agenda. If you have a presupposition to try to 'prove' a hypothesis, then with enough information, you can convince many great minds of 'truths'. Like the quote in my signature states, you really can't prove anything. Proof is completely reliant upon going against other 'proofs'. Evolution bases so much on showing how creationism is invalid and not tenable, yet showing something else as invalid isn't proof. Personally, I think evolution will eventually be replaced by a better theory. But this new theory will be completely reliant upon showing how evolution is invalid. Does all of the 'facts' from evolution suddenly become nonexistent? No, and either does any of the main ideas from creationism (that some intelligent being started life in some way, somehow). Some truth can be derived from these theories, but none are absolute. So because of that, I disbelieve them both because they are too narrow in thinking.

You believe in free will, yet scientists are saying that we don't have free will, and we base this on identical twin studies. If facts are so important (what exactly is a fact, anyway?), then you should stop believing in free will because scientists have already 'proven' that free will is highly unlikely. Personally, I think that goes against common sense. As if reality is how you dress, what brand of shampoo you buy, what colors you love, what you find attractive in a mate. Two people, living the same actuality, but carry out a different purpose or story of life.

I have probably derailed from the topics main subject, but in many ways I haven't. I am trying to show how 'facts', 'truths', aren't always truthful or factual. It really all depends on how one interprets data and if there is one solid way to interpret this data. As if there isn't such a thing as KNOWING without what science considers 'valid' or 'evidence'.

 

I agree Okiefreak; I too would like to know which ones Reefer Rogue is talking about.

I remember reading about one tribe, I believe in the Philippines, that was suppose to have no concept of God but it was later found to be a hoax.

 

def zeppelin, I believe the quote you cited was from kaminoishiki not Reefer Rogue.

 

Oh, I meant those two things as separate. I made my comment to reefer, then I quoted kaminoishiki. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Thanx, I'm sooo confused!

 

Well, if you look at the religions of Earth (both ancient and modern), most of them are polytheistic. The usual monotheistic concept of "god" would be (or woud have been) foriegn to them.

 

Most polytheistic religions believe in a creator God that created the rest of the gods... ancient Egyptians believed in this, for one.

Hindu: Braman

Ancient Egyptian: Forgot the name, but the creation story revolves around the first land mass poking out of the water (pyramids), and God, quite literally, 'cumming out the universe into existence'.

Most monotheistic religions centers around that creator God.

I believe even the Pagans had their own creator God centered around their beliefs.

 

That's a vague generality. Creation myths/religions range all over the spectrum, in terms of their explanations. Even in the cases where it is basically true (which is not most), it is still very different then the concept in monotheism (or at least in the standard Judeo-Christian version), that the one god possesses all the power, which isn't the case in the ones you mentioned or any others that I know of.

 

This was my original question.

Which you can see was asking about the concept of God or Gods being universal among mankind although it seems that it if there was no God or Gods Atheism should be more prevalent. I was not asking about numbers of Gods worshiped just the concept itself.

 

Thanks Def, you are very well spoken and i respect your views also. I don't hold science as the answer to everything or as infallible. I reject determinism and embrace free will in the sense of self-determination. I think this is a decent debate on the issue: http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/freewill.html

 

Human beings can be very creative. Making up stories with characters that have super-powers isn't anything new and is still going on. Look at many of the modern comic books. Believing in them as fact is a whole separate step. A genetic inclination toward theism is a possible answer and there is mounting evidence for this, and the subject of several books (example - The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes by Dr. Dean Hamer).

 

Who said life and consciousness only exist on earth?

There is no evidence that the universe itself is some super consciousness. The universe is to vast to communicate with itself. Where are the neural pathways? In the universe light speed communication takes BILLIONS of years. God would be dumb as a rock. The universe does not fit the model of super consciousness or or theories about how God is all knowing and eternal. The universe is constantly changing, stars collapsing and exploding. Life, knowledge and information only exist in finite periods of time not infinite.

 

Our mental color spectrum represents the limits of our mind as far as colors go because colors only exist in our mind there is no capability of imagining more.

Saying "we cant imagine anything untrue" is simply ludicrous! Are you saying Luke Skywalker is real, captain kirk and transporters are real?

 

Neo Dude : "The fool sayeth in his heart, 'There is no God'".

Really. I assume by this then that you have come to, at least in your, view to the wise, rational and philosophically sound position the god does indeed exist. This is ultimately what this all boils down to really. Most atheists are yet to see such a proof of well Gods existence. certainly many theists have tried over the long centuries to do so. But to no avail.

You use a-priori argumentation to well claim that Atheism along with scientific empiricism are floored as ways of thinking and seeing the world. In any case Your very survival depends on these as you claim very floored ways of thinking about the world. All you could provide in return were some analytic statements e,g definitional propositions that were formulated by Aristotle back in the 4 the century BC which do not actually say much or anything about the world.

As or Darwinism, we all know that creationists are seeing it as the first port of call in a campaign of rolling back against the secular world views of science. As for the merits of creationism well, if you believe that the earth was created in 7 days then thats your problem or maybe not if you plan to ride the religious right in the US.


Ride it

Regards

 

Something that bothers me here:

1) Atheism is not a philosophy
2) As such, atheism is not meant to "answer the big questions"
3) Religion has pretty much dictated what "the big questions" are...
4) ...and more importantly, what they aren't.
5) Most atheists do have other beliefs, just not beliefs in the supernatural.
6) Atheism (like the good religions) allows people space to believe what they won't.
7) The whole point of "the big questions" is that they're not answerable.
8) Anyone who claims to have logical answers to "the big questions" is a div.
9) It doesn't actually matter what the answers to "the big questions" are; they're just there to remind you to keep things in perspective.
10) They seem to fairly consistently fail to do this.
11) We need new "big questions".