Why Do You Think A Lack Of Meat Upsets People So Much?

Discussion in 'Vegetarian' started by unfocusedanakin, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    or a hoof or a trotter
     
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  2. deleted

    deleted Visitor

    ya can't eat green in the winter, ya hunt the vegetarian animals til spring comes. this can be true today as meat is heavy and summer foods are more veggie than meat.
     
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  3. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    YAY!!!
    another who doesn't resort to simple opinion (mostly) and provides some support for their position.

    and I will look at what you you have offered.
     
  4. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    now this, for the most part, is opinion and just silly.
    stop attempting to apply morality to it.

    take the modern human moralistic evaluation out of the equation (animals don't consider/apply moralistic bullshit regardless if they are the are the feaster or the feast) and consider it from a non-bias perspective.
     
  5. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

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    Most people live by the dictates of their self-image, which is a product of their past psychological memories and conditioning, and which is inherently unstable. Conflicts of all sorts have their basis in the instability of the self-image due to its illusory nature, as it is just a mental construct and have no basis in reality as it is.


    When people who go by the self-image or mental position of being a non--vegetarian, gets threatened that their position is being attacked, they retaliate taking it personally. The same goes for vegetarians as well.


    It is the same for any other issue as well. Identification of the personal self with this or that stance.


    People who identify themselves as muslims get into conflict with those who are not.

    People who identify themselves as sunnis get into conflict with those who are shias or sufis or ahmediyas.

    People who identify themselves as English football fans frequently get into conflict with those who are not, leading them to hooliganism which has been 'regarded in Continental football circles as by far and away the worst in Europe, if not the world.'


    The self-image creates a situational perception of 'me' and 'not me', which is the basis of conflict. The degree of identification with one's likes and dislikes determine the emotional energy involved, and the corresponding degree of conflict.

    In some cases it is just minor insults traded. In others it is violence or open war.



    For conflict at a minor or major level to cease, identifications must cease. Cessation of the psychological tendency for identifying with this or that can enable peace and harmony to prevail.
     
  6. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    I suppose some of the concepts at large such as foods useful for sustainability, efficiency in brain/body processing, and ethical concerns can be addressed without inherently needing to be prefaced by one's own dietary lifestyle, but how does one cease identification as a vegetarian, meat eater, vegan, etc. when their choice of diet is intextricably linked to these classifications?
     
  7. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

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    You can identify yourself as a vegetarian or non-vegetarian for practical purposes without associating it psychologically with one's self-image, by being attentive.

    The fact and the image are two different things. The psychological self-image of the identity as vegetarian/non-vegetarian, due to emotional investment in it, can trigger emotional reactions when it is attacked.

    These emotional reactions actually is the theme of the thread.
     
  8. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    Hmmm...I dunno.

    Associations seem invariably triggered once there is identification and then we're practically back at square one.
     
  9. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    So you would eat a dog or a horse? Lots of people do but most Americans would not do that. They treat the dog like it's their child while another animal is on the table. Some people would never eat a pig. What is acceptable to eat is a cultural and personal choice.



    Yeah for me it's also about evolution. Some posts want to stick to the old way. Humans are supposed to eat meat and all. And they will defend that position to the end. Even if they saw the life of an animal on the average farm they would say they do not care. Since it's an animal it does not have the same feelings. Man is dominant and will use them as they see fit.
     
  10. Ajay0

    Ajay0 Guest

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    When there is attentive awareness, no psychological association takes place and consequently there is no emotional reactivity as well.


    If you try this honestly and diligently, you can see the same for yourself through your own direct experience , which is all the validation it requires.

    The true nature of a person is awareness , and not his or her imagination and transient psychological images which one usually takes up as one's identity. It is imagination that brings up all sorts of conflict manifesting as vegetarian-nonvegetarian, shia-sunni, catholic-protestant, American-Russian, Christian-Muslim, Chauvinist-Feminist, 'I' - 'You', 'My gang' - 'Your gang', Aryan-Jew, Jew-Muslim ,'my football team' -'your football team' , 'my tribe' - 'your tribe' , Serb-Bosnian and so on.
     
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  11. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    It surprises me sometimes how fanatical people can be about dietary issues. Years ago, I had a friend who was an ex- Hare Krishna devotee, and very into vegetarianism. Now and then, he'd have a rant about it, and on one or two occasions suggested that 'we' should go out with sledge hammers and 'smash up a bastard butcher's shop'. Needless to say I never participated in any such action,although at the time I was experimenting with vegetarianism.

    This person was also taking quite a lot of amphetamines at the time - which to me seemed like a huge contradiction, especially if the health aspects of a veggie diet were the thing. But they weren't. It was an ideological stance learned during his Krishna days. As Ajay said, a kind of identity. A way of distinguishing the righteous from the unrighteous. Any 'meat eater' was fair game to be the recipient of much abuse. I remember him saying how he would never let his kids play with the kids of meat eaters. Didn't do much to improve my image of the Hare Krishna movement, or their dietary preferences.

    Personally, I eat a little meat,always organic outdoor reared, some fish, but mainly eat veggie. From the health aspect, I think processed meat is the thing to avoid, or eating meat too regularly.
     
  12. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Its so easy to purchase meat off the shelf in the market and not consider its origin.
     
  13. GLENGLEN

    GLENGLEN Banned

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    And That Statement Applies Equally To ALL Other Items On A Supermarket Shelf...... :)



    Cheers Glen.
     
  14. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    I agree, but pulling up some veggies out of the ground and cutting up a dead animal are different things. Many who eat meat have never done the latter. I suspect at least a few would find it difficult.
     
  15. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    I'm sorry you see morality/ethics as BS.

    Ethics are my compass.

    And the last bit? Hardly opinion. Hydrocephalus at birth, in the early 1960s, usually was a death sentence. Instead, my brother got a shunt tube that allowed him life. But the damage had been done. His cognitive abilities were on par with an 8-month-old child until he died at 33.
    He truly was less capable than the livestock.
     
  16. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    HUH?
    What?

    I deeply respect you mama and always have, but this makes absolutely no sense to me within the context of the topic of vegetarianism, I'm baffled???
     
  17. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    I will admit it would profoundly affect me to the point of sobbing, but that doesn't change the simple fact that humans have been, are and most likely will be omnivores.

    gotta separate personal emotion/morality from the equation in order to find the truth.
     
  18. drumminmama

    drumminmama Super Moderator Lifetime Supporter

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    Your post read as if my assessment of my brother was opinion. It wasn't, and I used the sentience argument (the Singer/mollusk bit) with my late brother. (And explained how it was t a flippant comment)

    One common refrain I heard when I bothered to listen to random people lecturing me about my diet was that animals were lesser, and somehow deserving of torture and death for a human to enjoy,
     
  19. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    please do not make the assumption that I feel the same way about animals, far from it.
    BUT
    they understand the manner in which nature functions at a much more fundamental way and manner than we possibly can and are not completely obsessed with their own mortality as we idiotic and self absorbed humans are, they just accept things as they are.

    as I have said in this thread more than once, gotta remove personal morality and emotions to arrive at the truth.
    one of the more asinine things is whenever vegetarians or more appropriately, those who are against meat eating apply their own concepts of morality to an animals.

    Frankly, lower animals simply lack the hardware to contemplate the shit we do, their brains/nervous systems simply do not allow it.
    Humans are the only critter that whines and bemoans their current sate and fear their demise.

    I have much,much,much,much,much, much more respect for all life than you erroneously assume.
     
  20. NoxiousGas

    NoxiousGas Old Fart

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    with all due respect and love mama, look into the mirror and realize how much you are projecting your personal experiences concerning your brother's misfortune into your opinions concerning this topic.
    is it really valid if you take yourself out of the equation?
     

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