Why do so many British dislike their fellow Europeans

If most west european countries share these issues and are determined to solve it is getting out of the EU really the most proportionate and reasonable decision?

 

Until I just looked at your profile, I did not realize that you are in the UK. It is good to hear that yourself and your family have done well here.

The reason that English people never seem to speak other languages is simply that we are surrounded by so many, making a choice very difficult, to justify the time and effort involved in learning a language for a country that you may visit once or twice during your lifetime. I suppose that because so many countries teach English as their main second language, it makes us lazy. . To complicate things still further, we have 2 other languages in the UK. Irish and Welsh. The later is very hard to learn. to prove my point, I will repeat this paragraph in Welsh, (compliments of Google)

Y rheswm nad yw pobl Saesneg byth yn siarad ieithoedd eraill yw ein bod wedi ein hamgylchynu gan gynifer, gan wneud dewis yn anodd iawn, i gyfiawnhau'r amser a'r ymdrech sy'n gysylltiedig â dysgu iaith i wlad y gallwch ymweld â hi unwaith neu ddwy yn ystod eich oes. Mae'n debyg, oherwydd bod cymaint o wledydd yn dysgu Saesneg fel eu prif ail iaith, mae'n ein gwneud ni'n ddiog. : yum :: yum :. I gymhlethu pethau ymhellach fyth, mae gennym 2 iaith arall yn y DU. Gwyddeleg a Chymraeg. Mae'n anodd iawn dysgu'r diweddarach. i brofi fy mhwynt, ailadroddaf y paragraff hwn yn Gymraeg, (canmoliaeth Google): yum :: yum :: yum:

The grocery company that I mentioned is called 'Nissa'. Although few people are aware, it is owned by Aldi, but rather than manage them in the same way as Tesco and Sainsbury's local shops, they are sold as a Franchise. In southwest London, a rich Sri Lankan guy bought several of the sites, appointed managers and they employ the staff. I know a few of the sites and the staff work as a family. The atmosphere in the shops is always friendly and many customers are addressed by name.

 

I'm was born and raised in London Balbus. Europa was discussed in far more circles than Europe only 5 years ago.

 

Kirste

Where is the proof of that?

So you are basically saying yours is a belief system rather that looking to see if your stance is actually fact base?

What do you mean by ‘political correctness’? Can you give me an example of something that is in your opinion politically incorrect?

And how does ‘political correctness’ supposedly result in working class people losing jobs?

 

Kirsty

Let’s go through those questions I asked again and what you seem to have put up as the answer to all of them.

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Ok I asked what you meant by saying there was a foreign invasion that was destroying British culture

You reply is - We no longer have free speech

What do you mean?

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- Which EU workers are changing UK culture and in what way?

How is that a reply to the question?


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- I mean what is ‘our way of life’ can you explain what you mean by it?

Again what do you mean by that are you saying that ‘our way of life’ is having free speech and now we don’t - how is the EU stopping you from having ‘free speech’?

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In what way where EU workers changing ‘our way of life’

So are you saying that EU workers were stopping you from having ‘free speech’ – again in what way?

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- Can you explain how EU workers have significantly changed ‘our way of life’?

Again what do you mean by that are you saying that ‘our way of life’ is having free speech - how is the EU stopping you from having ‘free speech’?

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- Again can you explain how EU workers have changed ‘our way of life’ and culture?

Again what do you mean by that are you saying that ‘our way of life’ is having free speech - how is the EU stopping you from having ‘free speech’?

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- How is the EU the third world?

What are you on about?

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Kirsty

But as has been explained we do not have a particularly democratic system in this country, in our system a Party without the support of a majority of the people can get almost dictatorial powers.

 

Kirsty

And you seem to be blaming things on left wingers.

AND again you are not actually addressing what was said - as I pointed out you seem to be attacking right wing neoliberalism or the right wing neoliberalist policies of the last 40 odd years but then supporting the right wing neoliberal that have pushed for Brexit while attacking ‘lefties’ for everything.

So again I ask - Why are you doing that?

Yes I’m a leftie and you are clearly a right winger or at least a supporter of right wingers so why call yourself a ‘centrist’?

 

Kirsty

What the hell does that even mean?

What ‘compromises’ are you talking about?

In what way are they given away?

Who are the ‘so-called educated people’

What are the ‘so-called educated people’ supposedly promoting?

What ‘concerned situation’ are you talking about?

Why are you bringing up black and brown communities in the context of EU migrants since most of them are white (poles and Irish topping the list) most of the black and brown population of the UK are here as a result of Britain’s colonial past.

 

Kirsty

I’m still not sure what your argument is, you seemed to put forward the view that the EU was destroying ‘British culture’ and the ‘British way of life’ but after been repeatedly asked you seem incapable of actually explain what you mean or what the EU supposedly has to do with any of it.

Now you are bringing up ‘free speech’ and again I’m unsure what you argument is in what way is the EU curtailing your ‘free speech’?

You have also implied that you feel you can’t say what you want to say because if you did so you would be called a racist and a fascist. Have you ever considered that these thing you want to say might actually be racist or fascist?

Also I’d like to point out that ‘free speech’ is not about been able to say anything without comeback or criticism.

If someone says something that someone else rationally explains why they think the statement is racists or fascist that stand until the other person can refute it.

Free speech cuts both ways it’s a matter of who seems to have the most rational, logical or truthful position.

If someone say Tyrannosaurus Rex lived at the same time as humans and someone else explains the geological and fossil records and the other evidence that the statement was incorrect and the other comes back that they don’t care and that they believe they are right, or that they saw it in a film then who has the better arguement?

 

Wil

Vikings only 300 years ago the Viking age is usually thought of as been from around 800 to 1066, which wars are you thinking of in relation to the Spanish, French and Germans. For example prpbably the most famous war with France was the Hundred Years War which was from 1337–1453, the main Spanish Armada that most people remember was over 400 years ago but I suppose the Napoleonic Wars 1803–1815 fit in with the 300 year timeframe as do the World Wars.

But I’m still unsure what you point is?

I mean if anything bringing up European wars only highlight the fact that the main reason for the EU’s European Project is to end wars in Europe.

 

Wil

We had colonial wars all over the place to put down rebellions and hold on to territories off the top of my head there was Kenya, Malaysia, Ireland and India. These were often violent and bloody conflicts in the first Indian Independence war (which we call The Mutiny) was particularly violent and leaders were made an example of by been tied to the mouths of cannon and been blown apart. We invented the concentration camp in the Boar war in which many women and children died of starvation and disease.

In parts of the colonies, native people were hunted and killed in Austalia Starting in 1794, mass killings were first carried out by British soldiers, then by police and settlers – often acting together – and later by native police, working under the command of white officers, in militia-style forces supported by colonial governments.These tactics were employed, without formal repercussions, as late as 1926.

British imperial free trade policies killed literally millions in Ireland and India where they could have been saved. We used machine guns against tribesmen armed with spears so we could garb their land and British troops regular openned fire on unarmed civilians.

And in many cases trade was imposed on people in many places by gun and sword the Opium Wars are just the most famous example.

We were not liked and in many places still aren’t.

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Anyway one of the reasons why we wanted to join the EU was that our commonwealth trade was in decline under pressure from EU and US traders.

And also remember many Commonwealth countries already had free trade agreements with the EU and other are in negotiation.

 

Wil

It’s a myth spread by the right wing media and politicians that we joined the EU thinking it was just meant to be a ‘trading agreement’ actually we knew we were signing up to the ‘European project of ‘ever greater union’

European Project, it is a pretty simple concept to grasp – the creation of lasting peace through ever closer union, anyone looking into it would know that the whole idea of the European project was for ‘ever closer union’ “It is found in the Preamble to the 1957 treaty that set up what became the EU [and] on at least six occasions the UK has signed up to it (firstly in becoming a member, and then agreeing to subsequent treaty changes)”

It has been the right wing (often neoliberal and wealth owned) media that have constantly pushed the idea that the EU was (or should) be only about trade.

Not sure what you mean there – actually UK governments pushed for the expansion of the EU.

What is your argument? The problems in Greece were not the fault of the EU but the machinations of a neoliberal right wing Greek government.

Why?

In what way is it dictatorial?

But why? I mean if you look at your ‘reasons’ they don’t seem that accurate or seem based on unsubstantiated opinion.

 

Wil

What interference are you talking about specifically can you please name the regulations you are talking about?

Can you please give the proof of this? And see as we have laws against that that have nothing to do with the EU why is that the fault of the EU?

 

Mystic

You have a point and it has a knock on effect because it means many British people did not take up the opportunity to work in Europe because they don’t speak another language so all the advantages from been able to work and reside in any EU state was not realised to the same degree, although things were changing with many younger Britain’s having discovered the advantages (and a reason why many are pro-EU).

I left Britain for work in Europe in 1979 as a victim of the Thatcher era’s high unemployment rates and I have worked in many European countries and have lived in France and Greece. I didn’t speak another language when I left but learnt French along the way (and I bit of Greek). Been in the EU was a real advantage in just setting off like that and now that has gone I fear many Britain’s will become even more isolated from the rest of Europe.

 

I

1) British way of life - "Free speech"? - basically - racist, xenophobe, way of life, the ENTIRELY way of British way of life to keep controlling the free way of life for everyone. Ultimately, the USA Civil War was an utter and total waste of time - in the grand scheme of things - disagree?? - come on then??

 

Kirstie

LOL I’m not even sure what you are saying that paragraph is a bit of a torture to read.

You seem to be implying that in your view the ‘British way of life’ is to be racist and xenophobic, it that correct?

Are you saying that to you racism and xenophobia are traits to be admired?

And can you explain what the American Civil War has to do with all of this?

 

I have to disagree with you, most vehemently, Vladimir, certainly from a personal point of view. Whilst I strongly believe in Brexit and voted accordingly, it is not for any dislike of non-British Europeans. I have friends in Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands; my next door neighbours are from Poland and I get on with them extremely well. They are all well aware of my reasons for voting for the UK to leave the EU and it has absolutely nothing to do with xenophobia.

The reason I, and many others, voted to leave the EU is because the EU has become a completely different animal to the one we signed up to in 1974. Then, we signed up to the European Common Market, an organisation designed to encourage trade between the countries of Western Europe. However, it has evolved to something that is completely unrecognisable from that time - almost a political superstate where individual nations are losing their sense of identity as they get swallowed deeper and deeper into the quagmire that is the EU political system.

Where it all started to go sour with the relationship between the EU and the UK was at the signing of the Maastricht Treaty. If the people of the UK had been allowed a referendum at that time, then the chances are that the British would view the expansion and evolution of the EU differently. However, we were dragged into something we did not agree to and, as the power of the European commission has been allowed to grow, virtually unchecked, so has the resentment of the EU in the UK.

It is not the people of Europe we dislike, Vladimir, it is the politics, bureaucracy and hypocrisy!

 

Actually, Asmodean, the main purpose of the Maastricht Treaty was to lay the foundation for an ever-increasing political integration which would eventually see the whole of Europe under the banner of a single European superstate.

 

I worded it correctly.

 

Balbus, in 1974, the British public voted to join what was then the European Common Market - the clue is in the name - an organisation designed to make it easier for the countries of Western Europe to trade with one another. THIS is what the British people agreed to!

Subsequent treaties were signed by the British government, allowing that organisation to become what it is today. However, all of this was done without asking the British people what they thought. If you go back to the signing of the Maastricht Treaty, you will find that the majority of opinion polls at the time showed that the British people were overwhelmingly against the UK signing up to this treaty. We were denied a referendum then, which would almost certainly have resulted in us voting to leave at that point - which is why we were denied our say!

Eventually, we were given our say in a referendum which, in his arrogance, David Cameron never believed would result in the UK voting to leave the EU. He was wrong.

As for the financial problems in Greece - along with several other countries, I seem to recall - these were, in fact, brought about by countries trying to align their economic strategies to allow them to join the Euro and countries outside the Eurozone, like the UK and others, were expected to stick their hands in their pockets to bail them out.