Why children?

Questions from Rudenoodle (that I've identified):
1) How would you explain to someone without kids why you have kids?
2) Do some people have a "primal urge" to have children?
3) Couldn't birth be considered mundane because it is so common?
4) What role does society have in the construction of the need to breed?
5) Does anyone with kids have a moment in their life that is better than when their kid(s) was/were born?

I have probably missed some, but I'd like to take a kick at this cats! Ooh yah.

2) Primal need.

My sister has never wanted children and found it actually very hard to find a man who also didn't want kids. She wants to travel, have nice breakable things, and go out to dinner parties. I say that this is the absolute best life for her. I want her to get this life and dream.

I have wanted a litter of children since I was 11. I knew that I didn't want them then, but I started taking babysitting and first aid for children so that I could get practice around them.

I understand from my reading that there are 3 broad demographics of adults out there: parents, the child-less, and the child-free. The difference between the child-less and the child-free is that the child-less are actively wanting children but not getting them either due to life circumstances or biology (i.e., not now cuz we can't afford it, or we are trying but haven't gotten pregnant yet). The child-free want to be without children.
I read an article in MacLeans about it being much healthier for individuals to exist without children. The sleep alone, holy crap... wake up each morning with a healthy glow... if you're not fully rested, it's likely the nookie with your partner that kept you up...

So, I would say, comparing my sister and me, that some people, yes, know they want kids but can't put words behind the reasoning.. which I would call a primal urge.

I also believe that some people who aren't breeders would make wonderful parents and long to be parents but have no need inside them to be biologically connected to the child.
And some people are parents who never wanted that, and who lie about never wanting that because they are ashamed.
I wish that they could just switch 'em between the two...
but I digress...

1) Why do I have kids?
Knowing you don't have kids, I will try to use words to explain why and how I knew that I wanted kids.

Uh... I would be drawn to baby clothes sections and would pick them up and make burping, pooping, barfing puppets with them... My husband calls them Phantom Babies.

I have always gotten along better with kids. I enjoy playing with toys and watching little things learn.
I have enjoyed raising fish (my first self-imposed step), cats (second self-imposed step) and dogs (third self-imposed step) to see if I could give them the attention needed and balance love with appropriate rules and discipline. Much more applicable to dogs than cats.
I think that there was and still is a huge influence of lady hormones in this decision.
I would watch commercials with kids and cry because I didn't have them and lie about why... hide that I was crying...
When I saw ladies who were pregnant I would get angry at my life.
And now that I have a pooping, stinky, barf monster of my own and another one in the oven, I might be cranky and near tears and hungry and sleep deprived but, if I hear her giggle there are rainbows and angels and ... um... yah...
I think hormones have a lot to do with it.
Especially (!!!) if you home birth sans pain med and breastfeed.
Lots and lots of oxytocin (I think that's how you spell it) which creates feelings of love chemically and is responsible for baby bonding, so I hear.
I can't speak for my husband, why he wanted kids, why he's so fiercely protective and loving of his little girl... but I know that it isn't the same for him.
I can't sleep if she's squeeking at all, but he can drift off...
but he loves her.
That isn't a very articulate explaination of WHY I had and continue to have children.
BUt that is as many real reasons that I do this.
Sure as hell it's not the smell. They're stinky little buggers.

5) The best moment in my life has nothing to do with my kids.
Quite frankly, I have always expected them to be as awesome as they are.
It would be really easy to say that it was the birth of my girl. But, no...
That fucking hurt.
I would have to say that I had a very good highschool experiece (once I got out of the public system) and, I almost wonder if it is pathetic to admit, my best moments were there. Usually getting awards for things that I hadn't expected and felt deeply honoured to receive (i.e., I got a music award one year, and a math one another).
Ever since then, the moments are less "pure" happy. More real.
Like, you could say that when I realised that my dad wouldn't die from his Lymphoma, I was hopeful again after so much sadness.
Or after my divorce, I got a mortgage on my own. That was amazing.

3) I had a home birth for my daughter without pain medication with midwives and some equipment available in case of complications.
So, I can't speak toward hospital birthing or ceasareans or whatever...
I value my birthing experience because of the quietness (not me, I wasn't quiet... I was all "AHHH, KILL ME!!!"), the safety, the... everyday setting with this change in my little world. Birth and death and life and children and the elderly... they're everywhere... What I valued was that my life, my little corner of the world, was changing and we were bringing into our little circle something new...
a little, slimy, cheesy, blood covered slug that was really high maintenance
And the experience showed me how earthy birthing truly is...
You freakin' poop. Involuntarily! HOLY SHIT!
They mention that very, very briefly in prenatal classes. VERY briefly.
Like, "Oh, and you may have a BM. Don't be embarassed, that's normal. Moving on..."
THERE IS POOOOOOO!!!
That freaked me out.
And because of all the pushing that your body is doing to get this little slug out of your body, your lower regions turn inside out.
When them mention it, they say, "Oh, and you'll probably have some hemeroid problems for a while... but it's normal, Moving on..."
Your freaking ANUS TURNS INSIDE OUT!
AHHHH!!!!

*ahem*
And your paraneum may or may not rip.
Ouch...

There is a lot of blood.

Placenta looks like kidney or liver or something that they occassionally throw into the chicken for your dogs...
Except much bigger.

And when the grossness of it disipates (usually around the time the pain stops and the flood of incredible hormones kick in - seriously, the hormones should be bottled... weeee), you've got this little soul in your arms trying to find your boob like a blind alien...

It is so mundane, but so many things are mundane and yet...it is so beautiful.
I do not think because 1000 million other people have experienced this before me that my experience was any less important to me.
Oh, and as I had this experience, my husband stayed with me the whole time and tried to help and pissed me off constantly (I was a little cranky, I have to admit)... but he held be when the contractions were so intense that I couldn't stand on my own (I stood as much as I could, and I dangled from him when I couldn't)... and he faced his fear of blood... and he was more wonderful to me in that moment than he had ever been before.
If I were to say that the birth of my child was the best day of my life, it would have nothing to do with the kid (and the poo and the pain and my anus)... it would have to be that my husband was there for me... 100% in the moment... 100% for me... my advocate... I love him so much for doing that.

Don't get me wrong, I love my sweet little girl. But my best moment with her was not when she ripped my loins asunder. Frankly, my best moment with her was when she decided that only babies bathe and that she wanted a shower. She's 18 months and communicates though some baby sign and some words...
She signed for rain and fought the bath. So, we gave her a shower.
The next night, we'd gotten a non-slip bath mat and she wanted to dance in the shower and I was terrified she'd fall... so I had my hands out on either side of her, just in case. She frowned this really comical frown, took my hands, each in its turn, and placed them on top of each other on the side of the tub under my head (does this translate visually). Then, facing me still, making sure I didn't move my hands, she takes my cheeks, one of her little hands on each, looks in my eyes and says, "Ma ma watshhh watshhh" which was her saying "Mommy, watch me, but don't touch, cuz I'm a big girl now and don't need you to hold me for me to stand".
If I tried to reach out to steady her in any way, she'd repeat the exercise.
Bathing is also mundane.
But it can also be beautiful...

Last question...
4) Society and its ... [fill in blank]
I believe Society is to blame for the cult of mommy and for the lie that a family, to be complete, needs a child.
I am going to stop this post soon (crud, this post is long...)
I'll find links that talk about The Cult of Mommy, about the need to be a "super parent"...
I think we need to carefully define "society", however.
This is a very VERY exciting debate conversation.
For example, the idea of children being valuable and not little adults was a creation of the Victorian era almost 100% the result of the development of the printing press. It created the ability to advertise, and the emergent middle class of the era (result of the industrial revolution) were VERY eager to distinguish themselves by providing for their children.
You could likely also trace women's rights movements, their branches and backlashes, for how society has crafted our current western conception of motherhood, childhood and family.

If you don't mind me saying so, I think that it is very brave of you to give such an honest request for information. You're right when you think that it touches on something "primal". I am sure you'll often get on nerves and irritate others questioning their devotion to their children.... their motivations... etc.
I don't think enough people are secure in themselves to honestly pursue a child-free life, to say, I want to be about me... I think they fear the negative selfish connotations.
That lifestyle is the best for my sister. This is best for me.
I chose this for me. It is not for everyone.
Like calamari.

 

1. Well the smart-ass answer would be, "because I had sex with my wife and I came inside her and what do you know? She'd been ovulating." The simple answer would be: "Cause we wanted to have kids."

2. Ummm... I don't know. I always imagined myself having kids in the future. Sometimes I would daydream about this future: I'd be playing with my imaginary child/children, bonding with them, having conversations and trying to answer their questions about various topics like life, religion, spirituality, sex, etc... And now I'm a father. And I don't know if all my previous daydreams are a sign of a primal urge. It's just that I've always imagined I'd be a dad someday.

3. Hmmm... the thing about birth is even though it is common, it happens a lot on a global scale. For an individual woman who gives birth to maybe two or three kids in her lifetime, that's not so common as to be considered mundane.

4. You mean how much of our desire to have kids is planted in us by society? In my experience, after I turned twenty-five, my dad used to drop hints all the time about how he really enjoys his grandchildren (I'm the youngest of four and my two eldest siblings have children). And whenever I bump into an old classmate the conversation is almost always the same unless we're friends on Facebook: "So are you married? Oh congratulations! Do you have kids? Wow! Time flies so fast! I can't believe you're a dad!"

It's like after you've passed a certain age, people start asking you these questions. So maybe society does play a significant role. Which is understandable, actually. If nobody gave birth, years from now we'd be extinct.

5. Not that I can think of. Actually, I hesitate to think of better and best when it comes to qualifying experiences like becoming a parent or getting married.

Because if I say that finding out that my wife gave birth was the best moment in my life, what happens when my wife gives birth again? Will that second birth be better than the first and therefore become the new best moment? Or will it come in second place? And what about our wedding? It's not the same as becoming parents, but still our wedding was special. We were very happy and we had a lot of fun. Is that going to come in third place? What about the moment we found out my wife was pregnant? 4th place? And the first time we made love? Our first date?

Why bother with ranking these experiences anyway? Why not just accept that all these moments were significant and life -changing, and that so long as we are alive we will continue having significant life-changing moments, and leave it at that?

Ditto. :cheers2: