Why are self-confident women written off as bitches by most men?

oh, i've had lots and lots of wonderful profs. and many have been men. but they were confident enough w/themselves that an opinionated female student did not cause them to give the student a lower grade, and dismiss many of her thoughts and ideas in class. those are the men that are secure with themselves. and are not easily threatened by strong women. those are the men to look up to. and be thankful for. because they play fair. and actually respect a woman for thinking for herself. oh, they do exist. very much so. and i respect them enormously.

much peace and love to you,

jenny

 

I was tempted, tempted, to sympathize for you, anonymousgurl21. Certainly in our day and age there are ears to listen to the many cries of oppression. But then I thought about an article written recently by Ilana Mercer -- by the way, she's the most talented essayist in the world, in my view -- about her thoughts on modern feminism.

Here is a link to her essay, "Mackinnon the Man-Eater":

http://www.ilanamercer.com/MackinnonTheManEater.htm

Ms. Mercer, by the way, used to work with patients who were HIV infected in South Africa. She puts the charge that American women have it so bad in perspective, and notes that men die younger than women:

But is there no significance to the fact that women continue to live longer than men, that many more men commit suicide, that men are more likely to be unemployed and less likely to get another job, and that they are more likely to suffer lethal industrial accidents? Is it of no experiential importance that of the 2350 soldiers who’ve died so far in Iraq and the 18000 who’ve been wounded, most are men? Not in Mackinnon’s static and stony universe. Here she is up to her clavicles in self-contradiction, a condition the Greek philosophers deemed “less than human, less than coherent, less than sane.” But then, they were of the patriarchy.

I also reflected about my life in college. Those blonde, blue-eyed White girls, many in sororities, oppressed? Say what?!?!?! Those girls with their cell phones, jabbering: "Like, yeah, really, it's a shame they broke up, like, they were a nice couple. Let's meet up tonight and hang out. Oh, yeah, I was so drunk last Friday..."

Women in America have it harder than men in many ways, no doubt, but they won't get too much sympathy from me... certainly White, middle- and upper-class college girls will get no sympathy from me.

As Ms. Mercer puts it:

Yet there is nothing in Mackinnon’s disquisition to demonstrate even remotely she understands the difference between the liberated, sexually overbearing, self-adoring “Girls Gone Wild” of North America and the victims of, say, the sex-slave trade in Thailand, Mauritania, and India. Or victims of tribal justice in Pakistan, where village councilors mete out rape to women on the losing side of a dispute.

 

thank you for your lovely sarcasm. it was most enlightening. but given that you already left a post about how it's a scientific fact that men have higher IQs than women (sorta tells me where your priorites lie, huh?), i am not all that astonished. i don't need your sympathy, sir. it was not asked for. nor is it wanted. btw, i am a scholarship student, and only just recently found a place to live. after being homeless for nearly 2 years. so please don't equate my life with that of a pampered "blonde haired, blue-eyed sorority student w a cell phone's" life, and daddy's credit card. you don't know me, sir. and you assume way too much. why so much venom?

again, i did not ask for your sympathy. and i do not want it. however, you might educate your own self by reading the brilliant essays of camille paglia? i mean, since we are on the subject of suggesting enlightening reading material? you might actually learn a thing or two yourself.

jenny

 

oh give me a break.

you honestly think most men are ignoring the problem and are simply indifferent? gosh, don't get too bitter on us.

Self-confident women are not written off as bitches by most men. That's a huge generalization and frankly it's pathetic. I love Sylvia Plath's talent and I can honestly say I never thought of her as a bitch.

 

Ok..........I have to comment here.
I see Sylvia Plath's name laced all through this thread, and I gather that you are pissed off because of people referring to her as a neurotic poet, and you attribute this to sexism. (if i'm off I apologize, I don't have the patience to read through this entire thread)

-before you dismiss her being referred to as "neurotic" on blatant sexism, you do realize that she commited suicide at the age of 30 right?? I'd say this gives people a right to refer to her as neurotic.

-You also have mentioned Virginia Woolf.............her life was filled with bouts of mental illness before finally comitting suicide...........

-Emily Dickinson went into hiding at the age of 23 and cut off all social contact.

Just pointing out simple facts.........perhaps them being labeled neurotic has less to do with sexism and more to do with the fact that they were all insane.

 

it goes both ways in school for sure

 

Get used to it...........this thread is full of female to male sexism...............

 

You should read my posts more carefully. I never said men have higher IQs than women. I merely pointed out that some scholars have published articles asserting this. Right now they are a minority.

And yes, maybe I was too sarcastic, but I must confess that the whole "identity politics" bugs me. It seems every group is out for victim status nowadays. I find it ironic that in a hippie forum there are efforts to divide society by the sexes. From my own personal experience, getting my sister through college by tutoring for her, and emotionally supporting my mother through her troubles, none of this I can relate to. And I suspect many if not most men are unable to relate to the identity politics. Oh, and women too.

I was not referring to you. When I was in college, it pained me to see how spoiled the girls (and guys) were. I just have a hard time swallowing your notion of college girls having it so bad.

Many of the hippies who post here don't have a college education or have at most junior college experience, so they are unaware of the whole sorority scene. They don't realize how much their lives diverge from the oppressed class of college girls.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will definitely read her material when I get the chance.

 

I'd also like to point out that my wife is a very strong, very opinionated woman. She makes the majority of our income, I take care of the kids and the house, that was our choice and i'm happy with it. I let her read through this thread last night and she agrees with my perspective (trust me, she would definitely let me know if I was misogynic in the least bit with a swift smack to the head). In fact, my wife, who is more educated, makes more money than me, and is one of the strongest most opinionated, self-confident women that I have ever met, is the one that pointed out to me that this thread was sexist towards MEN, she is also the one that informed me of the plight of those 3 poets, which spurred me to research it, and yes, they were all crazy as hell.........much like the majority of thier male counterparts.

 

first of all, emily dickinson did not cut off all contact. she lived w/her family until she died (she was in her fifties), and received visitors in their home. so you stating that she cut off all contact is not a fact. that is a sad myth.

secondly, you probably should have read the entire thread. if you did not have the patience, why even bother to comment? because you are basically repeating what meg has said at least 5 times already on this thread. and i told him (as nicely as possible) that we should just agree to disagree. sylvia plath is only an example i used, to illustrate my point.

again, what is that point? (for those few of you still fixating on plath, and how neurotic she was). i find double standards very disturbing. in and out of the classroom. and i see an awful lot of it. and yes, that does have a little something to do w/sexism? nuff said. thank you for your comment.

jenny

 

she just talked to people through doors and shouted to visitors downstairs from her room upstairs.


Perhaps socially challenged is the most politically correct term...

 

not all women reading this thread feel as your wife does. that was her opinion. which she is entitled to. in the same way that i (and other women) are entitled to our own. because you say this thread is sexist towards men (based on your wife confirming it?) does not make it so. just like what you said about emily dickinson was an opinion, and not a fact.

jenny

 

oh, looks who's back. *rolling my eyes* you just don't know when to quit.

ps. do a little more research. something a bit more current? she was in daily contact with her father, mother, sister and brother. she helped cook and take care of the family household. she received visitors, and spoke to them face to face in their home. again, you are conveniently resorting to a myth. in a sad attempt to have the last word. the so-called "recluse" part happened very late in her life. and it was more due to physical illness, than because she was "socially challenged."

jenny

 

where are you getting your information from? Virtually every biography describes her as a recluse. So what biographer are you getting your information from?

 

i totally agree w/you. it's a sad but true fact. it's almost as if a person's mental illness somehow negates their work? or at least that's how many critics tend to see it? even if it was brilliant. i mean, it really saddens me that people like van gogh, sylvia plath, and emily dickinson did not get more recognition while they were still alive. and emily lived well into her fifties. yet most of her work was not published (and praised) until she was dead and buried. it is very sad.

much peace and love,

jenny

 

try "the madwoman in the attic" for one. then some of camille paglia's insightful essays about the "myth" of emily dickinson. oh, but wait: you've read "virtually" every book on the subject, huh? *rolling my eyes* so why am i even telling you this?

ps. i have asked you nicely more than once to stop being so aggressive, and that we should just agree to disagree. yet you stubbornly continue to return here. what part of what i have said to you numerous times do you not understand?

 

to many generalizations on this thread without people typing why they are self-confident.

 

I agree, i'd like to see some concrete evidence to back up any of the conjecture.

I tend to think that crazy people are filled with the highest genious, as well as the most creativity. I really believe that "mentally ill" in some cases is societies failure to recognize and communicate with true genious.

 

i'll look into the first one...but camilla paglia? Dont you think she's a little....radical? and from what i found briefly on her comments of Dickinson, she claims that she has lesbian tendencies.. Dont you attack the male professors who claim the same thing???

" Sappho is a great poet because she is a lesbian, which gives her erotic access to the Muse. Sappho and the homosexual-tending Emily Dickinson stand alone above women poets, because poetry's mystical energies are ruled by a hierach requiring the sexual subordination of her petitioners. Women have achieved more as novelists than as poets because the social novel operates outside the ancient marriage of myth and eroticism."- Sexual Personae- Page 672

Do you have the title of her essays on the "myth?"

And fine, i yield. This really is going nowhere. I'll end with this: i think you are arguing over nothing consequential, really. And the problem with that is, people are a lot less likely to listen when you actually have something of consequence to say. Don't cry wolf...

Peace.

 

Society in general believes a bunch of stupid stuff. I think we're all going to die.