Why are self-confident women written off as bitches by most men?

oh, i wouldn't use the word fun. but it certainly was revealing (i suppose).

jenny

ps. you should get yourself a sweet little kitty. and then you might not be so lonely. the animal shelters have plenty of kittens and puppies that are in need of a good home.

 

dill, I have always thought of you as an equal and can understand why now. In fact I didn't even look at the gender notation and I think I did think you were male. I thought this post was about self-confidence, but it appears there is a lot of interchange about the self-confidence of other people and what that's suppose to mean in terms of societal rewards like getting elected president. Self-confidence when combined with happiness does only one thing for sure as far as I have first hand experience with, it heals a sick physical and/or mental situation in the self. It may go a long way towards gaining prestige in relating to others, but has anyone noticed how self-confident theives, liars and other bummer types appear?

peace in the slow lane here.
Honor Seed

 

Whatever you do don't get two kitties, they'll spend to much time being jealous over your attentions, just like two girls with one guy. It is a rare gem of a girl indeed that is not jealous in this kind of three way friendship. Either that or the 2 girls will totally ignore the guy prefering each others conversation. It doesn't seem like a three way equal level conversation or relation is possible for me with 2 cats or 2 girls. Frankly, I have 4 cats and 9 dogs and feel less lonely than with most girls. So excellent advice jenny, you must have experience in this area.

peace
Honor Seed

 

Yes, such people would be in total denial, but I say this for different reasons. Men and women think differently, and even have different intellectual strengths. New evidence is emerging that men have, on average, a 5 point advantage in IQ, whereas it was once assumed, even by myself, that the sexes were equal in this respect. Then again, I believe many psychometricians dispute this claim, although the idea is spreading in some academic circles.

Could men also be more gifted at math and the sciences? I have heard women have been bridging the gap, but I'd be curious about math scores at the very extremes: where differences further away from the general population mean are likely to matter in terms in producing future scientists and scholars. Harvard's president, Larry Summers, got into trouble for mentioning that there might be a biological basis for these differences, as I recall.

If you tally up the geniuses among both sexes, male geniuses far outnumber female geniuses, and among geniuses at the very extremes, there are virtually no women. Discrimination has certainly played a role, but probably cannot explain all of it.

Men also have more testosterone, which makes them more violent and aggressive compared to women. Even young boys, as virtually any teacher knows, tend to be more aggressive than young girls, exceptions notwithstanding.

The most successful woman I ever met was never called a "bitch," yet she is a multimillionaire and runs her own business. Men with attitude problems are called "assholes" whereas women with attitude problems are called "bitches."

I have not studied IQ enough to say whether women are 5 points short of men, on average, but I do believe there is a glass ceiling against women. 5 points is not enough to explain why such a small percentage of executive positions are held by women. Clearly discrimination -- of the unjust kind -- is rife within corporate America.

I am all for allowing women the opportunity to reach their potential in whatever field they choose. Women can make great political leaders, scientists, and businesspeople. But if we are expecting equality of results, as if discrimination were bad enough, I am afraid biology precludes that. So long as people assume that men and women are wired the same way -- that men and women exhibit no sexual differences due to biology, that men have no inherent advantages over women in some intellectual areas -- there will remain resentment. This is, as far as I am concerned, a scientific rather than a political issue.

Regarding the character of Western geniuses, it seems many male geniuses were, and are, mental basketcases. So I don't see how one can say men evade this charge.

 

There is a huge difference between self confident, assertive women and bitches. It is all about respect, tone of voice and no condescending attitude. Until we figure out how to be self confident and assertivie w/o lack of respect, sarcastic tone, and condescending attitude we WILL be labeled truthfully--bitches.

Who gives a flying f#$% what a prof thinks/says? University is FAR REMOVED from the REAL WORLD of the marketplace.

 

lol timing is everything RS

 

okay, so WHY didn't YOU USE PROTECTION? Not saying anything about your situation was right or good BUT...


Right on! it's the submissive/dominant issue that nobody wants to talk about. so because i had an an abortion (at 16) so i could remain in h.s., (after my b.f. abandoned me), and go on to college, i am some sorta twisted "bitch"? i don't think so. where's his responsibility? if we are "still" blaming the woman for becoming pregnant now, we have not advanced all that much beyond the 20th century, huh? but it is so much easier to blame the woman? than ask why the man refused to use protection? because it "took away most of his pleasure." so why is the woman the only one responsible? because it's so much easier. period. hello? do most of you dudes really think we women were born without a brain? sorry. but that's how it seems. and it's high time for you to own up to your own responsibilty. instead of just blaming it all on us "slutty" woman. that's way too easy. way, way too easy and convenient.

jenny[/QUOTE]

 

look not to be rude here, but men dont get pregnent, so you must take responsibilty for birth control. many men and woman simply will not have sex without protection, and none of you should either, regardless of what he or she says untill you've known your partner for awhile

 

I thnk our freind Megara really in truely beleives that men have it harder than womyn do. And that womyn really don't have it all that rough anymore. I don't hold it against him. (well I try not to.) He seems like a nice dude. But, doesn't quite understand the underlying sexism that forms our society.

*sigh* it isn't just Meg, he's speaking for a lot of men. (Not all of them, by all means, people.) But, at least he has the guts to speak his mind, and although I often don't agree with him, I do admire his steadfastness and his desire to get his point across. He has every right to do that. And, he does often learn things. He's young, smart and a bit naive, but a good soul, I think.

Nuff said.

 

I think its impossible to compare how 'hard' different sexes have it. I recognize the fact that both men and women face challenges. Sometimes they are the same...but often they are not.

I try not to fall for the simplistic reasoning that so many use: "Someone called sylvia plath neurotic....women are opressed!" I try not to fall for the basic, simplistic and most certainly unscientific stereotypes that so many people rely on: "Men think women are weak and strong women are bitches" or "women sleep their way to the top and can't add 2+2 if their life depended on it." This is no different than saying "black people are criminals." I find them inaccurate and demeaning.

I try not to let my emotions overtake my reasoning skills. I think so many fail to do this when it comes to gender issues. This isnt a game of "We got it worse than you!" Saying women or men have it better/worse does little to fix any of our problems

aww thx

 

thanks, hs. i do have a cat. but i got her from a friend. if i hadn't decided to keep her, she would have wound up at a shelter. which would have been a shame. because she really is so sweet and pretty. i've since looked into doing some volunteer work at the local animal shelter here this summer. and that's when i found out how great the need is for these wonderful creatures to be adopted. so many of them are put to sleep. especially the grown cats and dogs. the kittens and puppies are much more likely to find a new home. sadly, the older ones don't have a very good chance of making it.

much peace and love to you,

jenny

 

"I try not to fall for the simplistic reasoning that so many use: "Someone called sylvia plath neurotic....women are opressed!" I try not to fall for the basic, simplistic and most certainly unscientific stereotypes that so many people rely on:"~Megara

i guess i'll just accept what maggie has said (that you are still young, and at least trying to understand the issue) and attribute that to your inability to understand my point (and Dancer Annie's). and what is that point? i'll say it for you again. sexism is still very much alive and well in america. and as a young woman attending college (btw, you are actually older than i am, huh), i see way too many double standards for comfort. you decide instead to go on the defensive, and repeatedly claim i am merely offended by one professor stigmatizing sylvia plath as a "neurotic poet", when i have tried several times to explain to you that is only one example of the bigger issue: sexism. and it is far from simplistic. did i not mention anne sexton and emily dickinson also in this thread? in addition to janis joplin? yet you go on and on about sylvia plath, and how "simplistic" i'm being? sorry, but i give up. i won't be responding to any more of your comments, megara. it's a waste of my time. and perhaps your own. so i choose to end this matter w/you now (in a civil manner) before it gets too out of hand. best wishes to you.

jenny

 

there is a song by joni mitchell called 'coyote' in which she sings like she's tellng a story - it sounds like the guy is a womanizer and she is tempted by him but describes herself as ' you - just picked up a hitcher - a prisoner on the white lines of the free way ' - e.g. you'll never own her - that kind of self-confidence is quiet and self-assured - i like that

 

i agree w/you 100%, maggie. and that's why i've decided he and i should not debate the issue anymore. and you are correct: i believe he's speaking for a lot of men. and i see this daily in school. that's what prompted me to post this article in the first place. the only difference is the age factor: meg's attitude might be understandable due to his young age. but what about all the male college profs in their forties and fifties that have the same attitude? that's what i find so disturbing.

much peace and love to you,

jenny

 

joni mitchell is a fave artist of mine. she's totally brilliant: she paints, writes her own lyrics, and is a wonderful singer (IMO). i've listened to "the last time i saw richard" at least 50 times. such a sad and beautiful song.

much peace and love to you,

jenny

 

I have made no claims that sexism has been erradicated from America. It hasn't and it affects us all.

People can critique women without being sexist. Just because they called sylvia plath and others neurotic does not mean they are sexist or trying to push a sexist agenda. Just because you don't like that, does not make it sexist. When professors call Poe neurotic, do you think they are being sexist? When they call van gogh a little crazy, are they sexist? Or are they only sexist when they attack women? And lets be honest, Sylvia Plath killed herself. She was not mentally stable. She was absolutely brilliant, but she had a few loose screws. What is wrong with pointing out her flaws? We do that all the time with men and we should not be academically dishonest when it comes to women.

As for the double standards? I'm sure they exist...i know they do. Men and women both face them every day. But please, lets not make it out like the whole white, male population is trying to keep down women and black people.

Fine. Lets be honest about these people as well. Anne sexton killed herself. Emily Dickinson was a shut in. And Joplin? Between her bouts of depression, anxiety, anger and rampant drug use she wasn't exactly the role model of a stable life. I dont see how pointing out these faults is sexist. They were super talented individuals, but they were flawed.


peace.

 

who gives a flying f#$% what a prof thinks/says? i do. and many other women. especially when our grades are being influenced by a prof's low opinion of women. that's called a double standard. and it is not acceptable. especially in a so-called professional environment. i think it's a bit ironic that you should talk about women "not" being condescending, and showing respect, if they want to be considered self-confident, and not bitchy. hmmmmmm. so why are you being so condescending and rude now? and how about your own tone? grades are an important part of being a successful student. if you fail a class (or get anything below a C) your scholarship and/or financial aid can be taken away from you. so yes, i do care. and i will continue to do so. for myself. and for other students that are women.

jenny

 

Clif Notes available or
do I need to read 80 some odd posts to get to this point?

 

i've asked you nicely to stop going round and round in a circle like this. and you obviously cannot respect that. i don't find double standards acceptable. in the classroom. or the real world. and i see plenty of double standards in college. and when i see smart women getting lower grades, because they are not afraid to speak their minds, while male students say things that sound just as arrogant (if not worse), and make an A: that is very disturbing to me. make any sense? i think maggie already summed up why you and i are not able to see eye to eye on this issue. and i tried to be nice, and asked you to stop going in circles on my thread. yet here you are again? so please stop already. we will just have to agree to disagree, okay? best wishes.

jenny

 

Well I guess my daughter has been lucky with her profs. male, gay, feminist and damn good lecturers to boot.