Why are billionaires good or are they not?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by unfocusedanakin, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    [​IMG]

    I have similar thoughts when a company tells me me a small percent of my purchase goes to charity. You could easily make a large donation from business you already had. Somehow it's my problem and you get to make more. Sometimes there are charity drives and I understand business turns a profit. It's not always bad but the corporations charity often is.

    If we were to take 99% of Jeff Bezos we lath he would still have more money then even many "rich" people will ever earn. That's an extreme tax but it's the kind of tax people assume when you say a billionaire is bad.

    You think lazy people are a drain on society? Just one lazy and greedy billionaire costs you more than the unemployed. Money has a limit. It's a high limit but billions is sort of a glitch in a good economic system. Why would Mr. Bezos want you donate out of your pocket? Why did he simply not give 1% of his wealth to a charity this Christmas? He will make it back so quickly. It's less than what it is for a middle class person to give a dollar from a paycheck.

    Small by comparison donations are common among billionaires. Millions are not a lot espeicly when they tax breaks and good will earn you more. I'd rather live in a society with better odds. You may be that Amazon or Microsoft guy and own the world. But most likely you are not going to be. Americans see themselves as temporally embarrassed millionaires. Wouldn't you rather have a society that was more fair? One where someone like the Amazon CEO is taxed so that his employees benefit. A society that rather that worship him and allow him to lobby for laws and demand respect for "job creation" instead said it's your duty as a business to provide good jobs.
     
  2. everything bagel

    everything bagel Banned

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    I think it's a carrot on the stick mentality. Dangle being a billionaire in front of us all so we keep chasing the dream, but if they make billionaire a responsibility rather than a party, we'd stop chasing the dream. So the mentality becomes, screw taxing billionaires because some day I'm gonna be a billionaire too
     
  3. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

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  4. Adamskiffle

    Adamskiffle Members

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    Billionaires to me are a lot like really, really poor people on benefits in that a lot of people hate on them, yet in reality many of them are probably perfectly decent people and most pay an absolute shit load of money in tax. As to whether the rich should be made to be more philanthropic with their wealth, I would say basically no, though encouragements of such deeds is certainly welcome.
     
  5. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    The $0 in income tax is simply not true, when politicians say stuff like that, and it seems to have come actually from Biden whilst visiting Iowa. They just basically make shit up to rally voters

    An article on the tax they actually paid:

    Does Amazon Really Pay No Taxes? Here’s the Complicated Answer

    Like every company, they get tax breaks for re-investing

    The top ten shareholders for amazon are investment companies like blackrock, who amongst other things handle pension funds

    As for a guy like Bezos, most of that wealth is tied to shares in Amazon, which he cant just up and sell as shareholders will get suspicious and the share price will plummet, affecting millions.

    He is personally still wealthy, nice house, bunch of cars etc. But making out he has $100 plus billion he can spend if he wants too is just not true

    And Bill gates has given a shitload to charity.

    If people want to be angry at someone, its not the Bezos or Gates of the world they should be angry at. Its the people making craploads of money with those investment funds who dont actually do any work. Wealthy retirees in Florida with shares in the likes of Amazon who arent in the public eye, thus you never see or hear of, who dont give shit to charity
     
  6. cllvsd

    cllvsd Members

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    I am completely bumfuzzled at the notion that entrepreneurs didn't "build it". So, yeah, they use roads and infrastructure, but they pay their share of taxes to use those things. And maybe you don't know many entrepreneurs...but I do. I know people who work/worked 60-80 hours a week to make their companies successful, who paid their staff before they paid themselves when expenses exceeded revenues, who missed much of their families' lives to make their companies successful, and in many cases risked EVERYTHING they owned. And they had wonderful, quality employees who worked beside them...but end of day...when the employees went home, they walked out of the door and didn't think about their jobs until they walked in the next morning. An entrepreneur thinks about it 24/7/365. And yes, in case you wonder, I know exactly what I am talking about...because that was our lives for years beginning in 1995, when my husband left the corporate world, and we put everything on the line and ultimately were successful. But it was a hard go for a lot of years. And I can tell you story after story of people I know in the same scenario.

    To take it a step further, we worked for this money and success. I have unloaded tractor trailers and fished couches out of recycle dumpsters, so we didn't get charged for them at the dump, and found myself in desperation at times wondering how we were going to make payroll. We worked hard, and it was tough. And we had absolutely no safety net or guarantee we were going to make it. So help me understand why some bureaucrat who sits behind a desk (whose salary I am paying through my taxes) has the right to tell me to whom and how much money I donate. Last year, my husband and I literally supported my personal trainer, who was unfairly fired for a worker's comp injury. He had no family as he was kicked out at 16 and no understanding of how the system worked. But he was a good kid with an amazing work ethic. And he deserved help. But even though he was a young black male, he had no kids, no wife, no dependents and ran into brick walls at every turn when he tried for government assistance. Why do I want the government to be the one who decides who I give my money to? Why is that not a decision I make as to whom I help? Why can I not give to the causes I deem worthy? Because by God, NO, the government did not help me build this. The government just put regulation after regulation after regulation and tax after tax after tax on my business and others. What was it Reagan said, something about the scariest words in the world being "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help" **RANT OFF**
     
  7. cllvsd

    cllvsd Members

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    And no, (sorry I'm back on a short rant), don't be mad at people making "craploads of money with those investment funds who don't actually do any work". NO, be mad at the system that allows this. The big government, big bank, big business and K Street guys and gals who figure out how to set the system so they benefit from it..at the expense of the rest of this country.

    And you can believe it, or you can choose not to believe it, but those like me, the middle class (because that is actually how I see myself, despite some success we have had) are sick to death of being put upon and looked down on by those in the DC, NYC and California bubbles...and that dear people, is EXACTLY why we have Donald J Trump as President and will again in 2020.
     
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  8. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    Because wealth does not give you extra privileges. I think that is what you are suggesting. That since you made money it's your right to spend it even if the goverment does not like it. The world does not work like that and it's a simple fact that billionaires are greedy and often sociopaths. They are not the type to give it all away. They give small amounts to earn goodwill. You must spend money to make money. It's just how you get ahead in Amecian Capitalism. They like to push the idea that they are nice but most people who work with a CEO type have stories. Amazon or Walmart are where they are since they have frankly costs 1,000's of people a job. They have taken all the limited opportunity. For their own gain they made others suffer in the name of "good business". Why is that fair? Why do you want to live in a world where most of us suffer?

    This is not a new concept. In Greece they said that you owe your life to Athens and it's people so you owe Athens. The wealthy are expected to fund the lives of the poor.

    You are suggesting a blue collar life for yourself. If you you have fallen for their lie. It is your labor they exploit. Don't be afraid to demand more of them. The poorer classes are the most opposed to higher taxes they will never pay. You are similar to the peasant who said the King needed his palace since god and him worked for it. I hope you evolve past that one day.
     
  9. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    Most of what you said is incorrect regarding stocks and investments. They make moves which the laymen thinks are helpful. Sure a lot of money is always in stocks but he has access to more than entire countries GDP at any time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  10. eggsprog

    eggsprog anti gang marriage HipForums Supporter

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    Eat the rich.
     
    Tyrsonswood likes this.
  11. StellarCoon

    StellarCoon Dr. Professor

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    billionaires are great because if you're a gold digger you can pull grabs lots of money and live off them like a parasite.

    also, who doesn't like being friends with the cool guys with lots of money. huh?
     
  12. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    Sad thing is your average rich person is loosing WAY more cash in a divorce than through taxes. The courts say his one mate is entitled to it all since she was a part of their success as a good wife. Why does this not apply to employees? Kobe Bryan's wife got like 10 million and she can't hit a 3 pointer. She might have given birthday sex did she unload the trucks at Amazon?
     
  13. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Need infrastructure upgrades? Don't expect the ultra rich or the corporations that pay no taxes to pay for them. Need improved schools? Same.
    Worried about the changing climate? Don't expect the oil and gas or the auto industry do do much about it. Fuck the habitable earth and all who live in it---there's still oil to be drilled for and money to be made.
    And please-don't expect the ultra rich to help with the homeless living through the winters. They just don't have enough money yet.
    And don't you dare try to form unions to bargain for some of the wealth your labor creates for the rich. Shut up and get back on the treadmill, assholes.
    Don't worry yourself about what laws that are bought and paid for are passed--"they" have the welfare of working folks on their minds with every law passed.
    Don't worry about immigrants being shut out of the country--nobody EVER immigrated to this country and let's keep it that way, by god.
    How dare women, those of color, and people not adhering to the mandated sex roles keep trying to ruin this country by continually stirring shit up about discrimination. Who doesn't want to grab a little pussy or make fun of oddly colored people?
    So in summation---shut the fuck up, take what you're given, do NOTquestion your superiors, WORK HARDER , WORK FASTER AND PAY ALL YOUR TAXES.
     
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  14. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    When America was founded the concept of something like Amazon did not exist. Society does not have the interconnection for that. A man can control his town. That all changed in the late 19th century with oil and electricity.

    There is a theory that in the Great Depression the elite hired all the WW1 veterans and basically took Washington hostage. They said we could have war now if we want those men are paid by us not you and you have no army anymore. At the time just like now vets were not taken care of by the goverment. They said in exchange for a war we will own the goverment though policy and the Federal Reserve.

    The rich were hated then too. Just like I am saying in 1910 people said you don't need so much money. At the time there is no USSR and no concept of Communism outside books. So no real examples of goverment but monarchy and democracy that have worked.

    The thing is most of are too young to have been alive then. We have lived in a world of propaganda where we are told we owe them everything. A world post Cold War that has lied to us and said unless we treat the rich like an endangered species we have to be oppressed.
     
  15. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    Simple negation isnt a constructive argument.

    What exactly did I say about "stocks and investments" and what do you think is incorrect?

    Anyone with Bezos level of wealth isnt going to have a whole bunch of cash sitting around not earning interest. That would be stupid
     
  16. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    Really? They didnt have the internet an online shopping in the 1700s. Thank you for educating us all
     
  17. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    True and that's why he needs to have it taxed. The fact that he can reinvest to look like he gives a shit does not remove his tax obligations. He does this on the idea the government actuly owes him something and not the other way around. It's a fundamental right wing American principle. Fuck the goverment and respect the guy who is so smart he actuly gets paid to be rich. We can't take anything from the rich since they earned it. Ok so you admit yourself he no longer earns anything. He makes millions a day off his employees which he can invest again to make billions. His actual work stopped years ago. There was a time when he struggled to pay rent and was the only employee. Those days are over and his geed gives his employees a worse life than he had at that time.

    True wealth is never earned. You make money make money off other's labor. The #1 factor for success in America is the income of your parents. Not this pro capitalist naive view that anyone can make a billion dollars so let's not "punish success". This is why families stay wealthy. At one point one of them had a good idea. Now none of them have worked in centuries since they can just invest that good idea into middle class labor. The rich are a drain on society. They are often lazy and selfish and they need limits placed on them by good people. There is a point of wealth that is far beyond average that is not Amazon rich.
     
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  18. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    Those things are relevant to modern commerce and relevant to wealth inequality now. The reason being how they fundemently changed society. That's why I mentioned it.
     
  19. Vanilla Gorilla

    Vanilla Gorilla Go Ape

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    All that wealth would evaporate overnight if all US Amazon consumers turned around and said, no we want products manufactured in the US and we are going to shift to online shopping sites that sell those

    Consumers are just as much to blame, the Amazons and Walmarts of the world are our fault. And we are just shooting ourselves in the foot using them

    Nothing really stopping anyone hopping on a bicycle riding to and supporting your local hardware store, insisting on a cordless drill manufactured in your own country not wrapped in the extra garbage associated with "free" shipping
     

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