Who should decide what a citizen is taught?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Balbus, Jan 13, 2005.

  1. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Gabino

    I have brought up the dilemma with this view before.

    What if the parents are racists, they feel it is their duty to protect their child from ‘pollution’ so they will not allow their child to share a classroom with any other child of a different ethnic background.

    Is that acceptable in your opinion?

    What if they pull the child from certain biology lessons because they learn the teacher tell the pupils that all human being are of the same species. The parents then teach their child that other races are inferior in every way.

    Is that acceptable in your opinion?

    What if they pull the child from certain history lessons because they learn the teacher tell the pupils that the Nazi treatment of Jews as inferior and the holocaust was wrong. The parents then teach their child that other races are inferior in every way that the Jews are part of an international conspiracy to take over the world and that the holocaust never really happened it is just Jewish propaganda.

    Is that acceptable in your opinion?

    **

    This may seem like an extreme example but that is not to say that there are people with those type of beliefs in the world, you only need to go on the web to see that.

    **
     
  2. Maggie Sugar

    Maggie Sugar Senior Member

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    YES. Because is isn't science, there is NOTHING to prove it (as is required for things to be taught as science) and our children should not have lies and "Faith Based Initive" crap taught in science courses.

    55% of Americans polled didn't beleive in Evolution? Damn, we are a dumber country than I thought. No wonder so many people blindly follow W. I'm getting depressed.
     
  3. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    What harm is there in it? I know when i took an astronomy class in college we covered the beliefs of how our universe was formed and how our galaxy looked...5 minutes on copernicus, 5 minutes on intelligent design..etc etc There is no harm in teaching it. Teaching intelligent design is no different than teaching that people used to believe the earth was the center of the universe. This isnt brainwashing people towards the christian faith. It is merely offering an alternative to the big bang, a theory, i might add.

    Now, the bible shouldnt be taught in science class

    Yeah, that is a scary number.
     
  4. Sera Michele

    Sera Michele Senior Member

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    I think that it is just a sly of bypassing the supreme court's judgment that creationism cannot be taught. And we all know that there will be individual teachers that will be slipping god into the mix.

    It is a little different than teaching that some used to think the earth was flat. That is history. Intelligent design is myth, it is religion. It has no scientific basis beyond "well it could make sense" and that isn't good enough to be science. If people didn't have these beliefs in gods and religion than this "intelligent design" theory wouldn't exist, but evolution still would.

    I don't think that this will last long in the schools. We'll see I guess.
     
  5. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    Err, no McCarthyism in europe? Yeah, i guess hitler just killed them instead of threatening to expose them to the public. It also helps when like half of europe was under communist control...

    Cradle to the grave policies work when you're protected by someone else. How nice the world would have been if america adopted cradle to the grave socialism like sweden and others. *cough*

    Americans believe in hardwork and being rewarded for YOUR hardwork. It goes back to a good quote i love.

    "Democracy and socialism have but 1 word in common, equality. Democracy seeks equality in liberty while socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude."

    America has always been instilled with ideas like that. Europe, well, hasnt. It has a history of entitlement through its kingship/aristocratic roots. People believe they are entitled to what they dont earn. Sorry, doesnt fly as much over here.

    Now, i dont understand is why you're trying to say that "western culture isnt uniform." So what?

    Socialism, democracy, etc etc, are all western ideas. Who cares if france is more socialist than america? What does that have to do with anything?

    Again, what does this have to do with what i'm saying?

    America is based on judeo-christian philosophy. Whether its "protestant or catholic or orthodox" is moot. Its not hindu, its islamic or whatever. Its christian influences. I could weight what sects i think have been the most influential..but at the end of the day they still have mostly the same beliefs. Who cares whether they believe in abortion or recognize the pope as the head of the church? Thats not what i'm talking about.

    To expand their influence of course. Christianity has no doubt borrowed from other religions. They are still christian beliefs, regardless of whether they were assimilated or not.

    You're trying to split hairs here. Do you not believe that America was founded by judeo-christian philosophy? Do you want to argue that it was really islamic/hindu/whatever religion that influenced us? I'd sure love to see that.

    Validity? what does this have to do with anything? We're talking about what influenced the US.

    Different religions are to be tolerated I dont have to believe that islam or buddhism or whatever is 'right' or 'valid' to tolerate and treat their members with respect. I do believe in separation of church and state, so i DO think that equal time needs to be given to all religions. That doesnt mean that i think islam is as valid as christianity. I just believe in the WESTERN idea of separation of church and state.

    What is rational to you might not be rational to someone else. So how do you decide what is rational? Things that can be proved? Science? Heck, most of science is still just theory with some laws thrown in.

    A school board and a parent must decide what to teach kids. Ultimately, a parent will have tremendous influence on their kid. So what if their parent teaches the kid racist things? Its wrong, its sad, but what are you going to do about it? Suggest that the state should remove the kid from the parent? That is JUST SCARY!
     
  6. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    Intelligent design goes back atleast to 1802, far before the SC ruled against creationism. So i dont see how its a sly way of bypassing the ruling.

    Yet, we're still taught that people believed the earth was flat. We're still taught that people believed the earth was the center of the universe. Why dont we add in this theory? It is of historical importance. People's hate for religion as clouded their senses .

    It absolutely IS NOT a religion.
    ]
     
  7. Tamee

    Tamee naked

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  8. Tamee

    Tamee naked

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    The parent is the only one who has complete responsibility over what their offspring is taught. Deterring from this fact causes many problems.
    Of course, reading the bible does not hurt anyone. Where people go wrong is when they think it should be a mandatory teaching. I personal believe in self-directed interest learning. Let people learn what they are interested in, when they are interested in it.
    In my opinion this is something that is inherent in everyone, not something that is taught. You start out questioning everything and exploring knowledge until someone tells you that what you are doing is not right and that you need to think and learn in a certain way. What we need to do is get back to that original way of learning.
    So I think we need to get our children out of schools. Of course, in doing this, we also have to change everything else about our lives, so that living and growing and taking good care of our children becomes more important than money making and spending. I, for one, will never put my child in school, should I have one.
    But it is not right, either. When it comes to creation, the only true answer that will come about is the one found inside the individual.
    Maybe it's 100% relevant to you. To me, personally, it's not all that relevant.
    They should have the knowledge of everything set before them and be allowed to choose for themselves what they believe in. No one else really decides what someone else really learns, anyway.
     
  9. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    I disagree. Greek learning has taught people to look out from their own borders. This isnt the case of non western education. It tends to be very introverted and not outward looking

    are you american? If so, it is 100% relevant to you.
     
  10. Tamee

    Tamee naked

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    I agree.
    It matters not whether I'm labeled "American" or not. To my personal existance as a human being, one who doesn't really give a damn about names, Greek history doesn't really matter much to me. It's only in your opinion that you think it should.
     
  11. HuckFinn

    HuckFinn Senior Member

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    Don't confuse intelligent design with "young Earth" creationism. They are not the same. The big bang is far more scientifically credible than Darwinian macroevolution:

    http://www.origins.org/articles/ross_astroevidgodbible.html
     
  12. Tamee

    Tamee naked

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    I don't think it matters at all which is more "credible". I have no idea how I or any of us got here, and since I'm living whether or not I have that knowledge, I don't think it matters all that much, perhaps not at all. The reason for my love of life is the mystery of it all. Perhaps it's more important that no one really know.???
     
  13. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    You cant change history, you can only choose not to accept it.
     
  14. Tamee

    Tamee naked

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    I completely agree with you. I accept history. I just don't think it's all that important to my well-being.
     
  15. Maggie Sugar

    Maggie Sugar Senior Member

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    Because what is taught in SCIENCE class should be scientific, and ID as well as Creationism are neither. I don't put my kids into DARE, because they LIE. For the same reason, I don't want my kids being taught the lie that is Creationism in school.

    Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. And also not able to argue intelllgently about just about everything........
     
  16. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    We're not talking about creationism. If you dont want your kids taught ID, then have them stay out of class that day. Consistantly putting ID and creationism in the same sentence doesnt make them te same thing. There is no breach of separation of church and state with ID. Are you scared that your kids might be 'warped' if they are taught ID? Do you think they are unable to handle hearing opposing schools of thought?

    Are you against teaching the history of science? Should we not teach kids that scientists believed the earth was the center of the universe because its not scientific?
     
  17. Tamee

    Tamee naked

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    I don't ignore history. I love it, actually. I think it's really interesting.
     
  18. HuckFinn

    HuckFinn Senior Member

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    It's more than a bit condescending to compare ID proponents with flat-earthers. Did you read the last web page I referred you to?
     
  19. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    You misunderstood me. I am not comparing ID proponents to "flat-earthers." I'm comparing the historical significance of the theories that have been proposed about the formation and makeup of our universe/planet.

    And yes, i read enough to realize that we werent talking about the same thing.
     
  20. Kandahar

    Kandahar Banned

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    They ARE the same thing. Neither of them use the scientific method, neither of them have any testable hypotheses, and neither of them offer any explanation for the universe's existence other than "God did it."

    A lot of kids would be influenced by what they're taught in schools, of course.

    If you want to teach that scientists once believed the earth was the center of the universe (in a history class), that's fine.

    If you want to teach that the earth is the center of the universe (in a physics class), then we have a problem.
     

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