Who here believes life exists on other worlds?

I'm sorry, but that alone, to me, proves that you're a nut.. sorry. you have fun tho.

 

I think it's very LIKELY that life exists elsewhere in the universe. But it is NOT a rational argument to assume that it does exist just because we as a species sometimes tend to "think we're so god damn special," as someone so eloquently put it.

Someone may have already posted this. What follows is called the Drake Equation, and it can be used to calculate the number of intelligent civilizations in our galaxy that might want to communicate with us.

N = R * P * E * L * I * C * T

N is the number of intelligent civilizations with long-distance communication capabilities in our galaxy at this time, and is a product of all the other variables.

R is the number of stars in our galaxy. The consensus of the scientific community is approximately 10^11, give or take a few billion.

P is the fraction of stars that have planets. This one is only slightly more controversial, but is most likely in the 40-60% range.

E is the number of heavenly bodies per star system that are CAPABLE of sustaining life. This one is more controversial. We've discovered hundreds of planets, but the most "earthlike" heavenly bodies we've found are Mars, Titan, and Europa...none of which appear (at least, not yet) to have any liquid water. Estimates for E are more diverse, ranging from 0.1 to 5.

L is the fraction of planets in E on which life ACTUALLY develops. This is probably the most controversial of all of the variables. Since we have no examples other than earth, this is mostly speculation. Estimates range from almost 100% (where life can evolve, it will evolve) to nearly 0% (the odds against self-replicating molecules forming on their own are huge).

I is the fraction of planets in L on which life evolves into intelligent life. Only slightly less controversial than L. Estimates range from almost 100% (intelligence is the ultimate survival asset, and will certainly evolve given enough time), to 25% (intelligence is no different than any other survival asset, like sharp teeth, and will only evolve if the conditions are right).

C is the fraction of intelligent civilizations in I that have both the desire and the means to communicate over long distances. This basically asks the question "How similar to us would other intelligent civilizations be?" Many scientists have claimed that this variable is probably somewhere between 10-25%.

T is the time that the civilization exists, as a fraction of its planet's lifespan. This would be the time between the invention of long-distance communication and the death of the civilization. If we assume that humans are an average intelligent species, no more or less likely to destroy ourselves than the average intelligent species, T could be anywhere from 100 years to 5 billion years, divided by the life of the planet.

Using these variables, we can draw some conclusions about the number of intelligent civilizations in our galaxy. I'll try to err on the side of conservatism.

R = 100 billion
P = 40%
E = 1
L = 1%
I = 30%
C = 10%
T = 1/20,000,000 (500 years divided by ten billion years)

Those numbers would mean there were 24 communicating, intelligent civilizations in the Milky Way alone AT THIS TIME. Various tinkering with the numbers will yield different results, but I think it shows that it's very likely that other forms of intelligent life exist within our own galaxy, to say nothing of the entire universe.

 

Man spread out from one location on this planet. Why couldn't LIFE spead out from one Planet to another?

 

It is extremely likely that life exists outside our world. But it isn't likely that it would be life as we know it.

We have already found evidence of life, but it is microbial. New Scientist (www.newscientist.com) has a lot of great reading on the subject.

 

This is an interesting article on Mars that I haven't seen before,

http://www.viewzone.com/marsobject.html

 

I'm not a geologist, but it looks like sand dunes to me. The area on the left of the dunes appears to be a higher elevation. The sun is off to the left and there are shadows cast to the right. The dunes seemed to have formed along a line near the change in elevation. They may be concave and slope up to the higher elevation. It can appear like a convex tunnel depending on how your brain perceives it.

I believe there are radar imagers on the orbiters that would give the heights directly, as opposed to people on the web trying to estimate relief based solely on an optical image.

Here's the original pic:

 

If one over-processes the images, artifacts can appear. The 'face on Mars' was so overprocessed by people that it started to look like a pyramid. If you've ever seen the high resolution pic of the face, you know it's not a pyramid.

There is a tendency for people to overly enhance contrast. That can cause artifacts such as distinct lines between black and white which aren't really there. Someone over-enhanced a dune feature on Mars and it started to look like a pentagon with sharp edges. It was then claimed it was made be intelligent beings. The original pic shows nothing but a sand dune.

 

Regarding the feature in the craters, they are apparently rocks. It's not unusual for a rock to get stuck in a crater. There are rocks that have gotten strewn about Mars during floods. It wouldn't be surprising for some to get stuck in craters. They could also be the remnant on the meteor that formed the crater.

One of the two recent Mars landers bounced on its airbags, fell into a crater, and came to a rest there.

 

ITS A GIANT MARTIAN SANDWORM!!!!

 

we're from mars, some of us

 

There is a theory that white people are from mars and that black people are from earth.. The diffrence in the pigment of the skin being caused by the distance from the sun each resective planet. I don't know if I believe this myself, but there you go.

 

Me either, but I know that all the research on our daily clocks show clearly that without any reference to timepieces or sunlight, we eventually reset to a 25 hour day, so where would you find a 25 hour day....oh what a fluke, mars.

when the planet got blasted so hard half its crust 3000feet thick, peeled off, and the atmosphere went with it, life as we know it ended there. The nice folks here took us in , and in return we took a 'rib' out of us, and helped them a bit with their evolution.

Could be fantasy, I like it more than most stories.

 

I just thought of that, the Neanderthals are still here, inside us, according to some recent theories I have read, so....
Maybe they were the mainly terrestrial ones, and then the 'Adamae' or earthlings referred to in the Sumerian texts as half-breeds might be the Cro-Magnon, who could not help themselves and ran the pure blood Neanderthals into extinction.

Just pure speculation on my part.

 

As I'm sure I've said in this thread before... i like the idea that aliens had something to do with intellegent life on earth... I just don't know to what extent.

 

I read of a meteorite from Mars tht contained 5 or 6 different signs of life. Each one can occur independent of life, but to find that many in one rock sample is very fluky indeed, it hints, but doesnt prove anything.

I get a little tired of needing so much proof. I tend now to just believe the person first, then after hearing all the views of others who looked into to it I go with my heart. In the end I try to always listen to my heart, not my brain.
It has a different agenda than my heart.

 

Why is it that every discussion on the possibility of extraterrestrial intelligence invariably devolves into pseudoscientific "theories" of life on Mars, or UFOs? Why is it that theories become popular simply BECAUSE they're completely ridiculous?

 

Um... OK. I think it has been all but proven that life did/does exist on Mars. No, I am not talking about little green men, but signs of life have been found in a martian meteorite and water once covered the planet.

And the alien phenomenon is a little more than just a crack-pot invention. There are just too many episodes to be dismissed.

Now sure some of the posts here are pretty ridiculous but what the hell its a free country.

I think life MUST exist on other planets. It's an odd coincidence that this solar system has exactly two planets that have the possiblity to foster carbon/water based life. Earth is completely overrun with life and Mars probably had life too. What are the chances of that? I think EVERY water bearing planet in the universe probably has life on it. That would be a few trillion life-bearing worlds at a best guess.

 

you tell me

 

Kandahar, you speak as though anything that sounds completely ridiculous is not true. How dull life would be. My life is a continous series of completely ridiculous events. I am almost at the same view as John Lennon, the more outrageous someones claim is, the more I believe it.
This is cuz of all my weird experiences, and there are lots. I guess I may as well share one of the more ridiculous ones. A few months ago, while I was visiting my fiance in hospital, where she is still rehabbing from a bad head injury, she looked at me with wide eyes, and said "See the ducks in the park.", i said when you get better, we can do that, she shook her head, wide eyes, trying to make her point, "see the ducks in the park." she said it probably five times. I replied the same way as the first, but knew I was missing something.
This was at a time when 3 word sentences were rare for her. the norm was one word. Pudding, More, Hi, etc.
I went online after I got home and checked out the posts at the webgroup that I had requested prayers for her from, and had been blessed to receive many.

A woman from Portland Oregon who I had gotten to know a bit had a message for me.

Ken, did Eileen mention seeing the ducks in the park, cuz she really enjoyed it.

Okay, Portland is at least 500 miles away, and here the woman is telling me that on her lunch break when she went across the street to the park and fed the ducks, my fiancees spirit visited and enjoyed the visit.

I wouldnt believe that in a million years, except that she did mention it.

I replied to her post. 'yes, she did.'

that is my lil story, pretty kooky huh?

 

No. It hasn't. There are some signs that it may have had microbial life in the past, but it is nowhere near "all but proven." My main problem is not the idea of life on Mars, it's the stupid things people come up with to "prove" it, like some rocks that sort-of resemble a face.

Fair enough. I have no problem with actual evidence, which I agree is looking better with each probe we send to Mars.

I hope you aren't talking about UFOs. Because yes, they are crack-pot inventions. And the number of people who believe in something stupid doesn't change the fact that there is absolutely NO evidence supporting it.

I agree that life, in all likelihood, exists elsewhere in the universe (and a few trillion is probably a very conservative estimate). But I'll wait for the evidence to come in before I leap to the conclusion that Mars once had life.