Where is the outrage from the Arab community???

Chongo Blanco, now we all know you are a self confessed ignoramus so we shouldn’t be surprised by your laughingly uninformed comments, however funny they may be, but please for the sake of your own self esteem, please thing about things before you post. I think it was Oscar Wilde who said "it is better to say nothing and be thought an idiot, than to open your mouth and leave no doubt"

I'll say it again. Do you have any idea how much fucking oil we would need to just pay for the war alone??????

Now think about your comment.

Well it is obvious that you are thinking in simplistic terms, you presume this was how things were meant to turn out. In fact those that thought up this adventure back in the days of the Project for a new American century had believe that it would be as one of them put it a "cakewalk".

Their scenario was very different from the way things turned out but then it was based on wishes rather than rational thought.

Iraq would fall quickly to a small lightening force (Rummy wanted only 80 to 90 thousand) the country would be captured basically intact with infrastructure and basic government in operation. The Iraqi people would see the Americans as liberators and go along with their plans. They would bring in the Iraqi National Congress as the a puppet government which would give the US lucrative contracts and military bases to which a number of US forces would retreat while the rest came home for a victory parade.

As to the oil since the US would be in de facto control of the Iraqi economy it would manipulate the oil production and have control over world prices. The neo-cons predictions on the oil flow from Iraq were astronomical with a barrel count nearing 1980 production figure, within a year. Short term loses for long term gains to the US economy.

The war and the aftermath were meant to be quick, and relatively cheap.

But remember that not all those gains would be financial, the US is a prodigious collector of military bases and to have some in a country at borders with Iran, Syria, Arabia and the central Asian states is something not to be underestimated in their scheme.

**

Many minds not clouded by dreams and wishes predicted what happened in reality.

The Shia population did not rise up as the neo-cons had thought since as many had said they mistrusted the Americans because of their assistance to Saddam in crushing the Shia rebellion during the Gulf War.

The resistance was greater than thought and so a lot more of the countries infrastructure was destroyed.

Since the neo-cons hadn’t predicted that, there was little to no logistical support in place to fix it quickly and what did work was in worse shape than they had believed something else they had been warned about.

Even basic government collapsed.

The exiles of the INC turned out not only to be less popular than they had claimed but even to be actually untrusted even disliked by a majority of the Shia and Sunni.

The oil is flowing (it was the one thing they had bought logistical support for) but not at the amounts predicted.

They are building 14 ‘enduring’ military bases but seeing how much they presence in Iraqi is deeply resented it is difficult to see how they are to hold on to them.

**

 

Also Balbus, what you are not considering here is that it's not just about GETTING the oil - it's about keeping OTHER COUNTRIES from getting it - specifically CHINA, whose oil demands are increasing every year, and which was working to get contracts in Iraq. Iraq would probably have been far more likely to give favor to China, which hasn't attacked it, than the US.

Mother Jones magazine had a fantastic article maybe a year ago (maybe I can find it online, or at least the map that went with it) that had maps of the middle east pre and post 1991. The first Gulf War basically allowed the US to get military bases into middle eastern nations that it had previously been unable to set up - and prior to the current Iraq invasion, the only places that weren't part of the mideast circle of US military bases were Iraq, Iran, and Syria - and now they're constructing at least TWELVE permanent military bases in Iraq. So they're pretty much locking down the entire middle east to be controlled by the US indefinitely. The US will decide which countries will and WILL NOT get middle eastern oil - and they will control the actions of much of the world in part to it.

And Americans will just sit back and keep bleating about how there is no "conspiracy," no secret plan - it's all for "liberation" and "democracy" and "freedom," but you'll note that countries that ALLOW the US to have military bases and/or oil rights (Saudi, UAEmirates, Turkey, Jordan, Egypt, etc) aren't being pushed to stop torturing THEIR people - and they won't be anytime soon - it's the trade-off for selling out to the west.

 

The american are getting there oil from the saudi's to fuel there war. At much less then market value. In exchange for god knows what.

 

Very good point LW

Chongo Blanco haven’t you got anything to say?

 

I havent read every post in this thread but let me just say Im disturbed by the general attitude of the Islamic world in response to either the Nick Berg slaughter or even 9/11.

Has anyone read the various Al Jazeera 'news reports' or Islamic newspapers online.
Many of them all but post pictures of themselves smirking at the USA and blatantly saying "Ha-Ha.. thats what you get"

Of course, its never that obvious and is written in a professional jounalistic style.

The irony is - These Islamic world media people do not even realise that if they were to show extreme outrage and offer sympathy - THAT would actually win them the propaganda war because the average American would be siding with them and saying 'Thank You for being so outraged.. unlike OUR military!'

Just some thoughts

 

Yeah but who says the gas companies aren't just buying their oil cheaper and selling it for more expensive. And before you say "they wouldn't do that, they need their buisness", keep in mind that EVERYONE needs gas, and no matter what the price is, they will still pay because they need to get to work, school, etc. Gas companies can FUCK the american public in the ass and still get just as much buisness as before.

Peace and Love,
Dan

 

What good is it being outraged? How long can you keep screaming? Maybe they used to scream but now they're voice have died out...and now they just don't give a fuck because the rest of the world don't give a fuck, or won't do anything about it. You want them to come on this forum and start posting? or you want to try and get the American media to represent the sob stories of the well-past outraged Arab community?

 

This newbie is going to jump in with his 2 cents worth …



There’s a lot of fishy things about Berg’s execution, such as no blood spurted when he was beheaded, suggesting that he was already dead. If so, then the scream was dubbed. Here’s some links I got from another forum, with other questions:



http://www.antiwar.com/orig/gregory.php?articleid=2582



http://www.rense.com/general53/mssm.htm



I keep thinking the unthinkable, that it was perpetrated by some of our own, to detract from the mess at Abu Ghraib prison. Hope I’m wrong.

 

I think there is something being ....avoided .. awkwardly avoided .. Nick Berg probably was an Israeli Spy ... or an American involved in some kind of 'cloak and dagger' business.

I think this might have been true for Daniel Pearl - but he had a good explanation behind him, being a journalist.

Berg definately had some 'incidents' with the US .

What is probably the most suspicious of all - Why on earth would ANY company in their right mind send a JEWish American (Who the Jihadists despise more than anyone on Earth) into the most volatile place in Iraq!?

I dont even think the US intelligence is really 'hiding' Bergs situation .. but for obvious reasons they cant actually say "Yes.. he was undercover ...."
you know.

.... Ok.. now I have not seen the video and I doubt I ever will. Personally, I am so revolted by these things I have nightmares just seeing the 'still shots' of the events leading to it.

I had a tough time when I saw the Pearl video.
For what its worth - The Daniel Pearl video 'cuts out' during what is supposedly where they cut his head off.
Then picks up with , what appears to be, a murderer just making the final removing slice.
Then cuts out again... and they hold up his head.

Rumour was - the actual kidnappers wouldnt kill Pearl, then had a 'big boss' come interogate him. The interogator became enraged at Pearls answers and emptied his Gun into him.
They realised they missed an opportunity to terrify people by sawing through his neck while he was alive and proceeded to 'doctor up' a scene.

Can anyone tell me if Berg is definately seen alive while they cut him?
Were there edits?

I actually hope and pray they just surprised him with a bullet instead of what this sounds like they did?

No... I absolutely do not believe that George Bush is a psychotic evil serial killer who found five sick twisted Americans to sadistically slice a mans head off with a kitchen knife just to get some 'votes' and more oil money for his family.
I think you can take things to a point where the original protests loses all credibility and nothing can be taken seriously when you suggest that Bush Jr. deliberately slaughters AMERICANS just to win a four year job extension.

 

They ARE screaming, but nobody is listening.