When you think about it..Is not war a crazy thing?

I still think that war is crazy and illogical, and to kill and be killed will never make sense to a sensible man, however to allow any level of injustice to prevail when you can do something about it, is as bad as if you yourself are the cause of that injustice.

Diplomacy and perhaps little compromise should come first, but if that does not disuade the opposite party because of stubborness, then there should be some action other than talk.

Why does it have to be killing? make the soldiers be athletes, after all it is the fit that goes to war not the sick, put them to compete like in the olympics, whover wins wins the sport. In anay gamble the loser pays, then do that, why does it have to be killing?
There is too much loss in killing.

When comfronted with a beast in its turf, that will not listen to reason, it is only proper to use a weapon to defend yourself, and if you have to kill, you kill, but if we are so civilised why have we not come up with more logical answers to solve international conflict?

By sending the healthy and the strong to killing fields, any country is acting against itself, not for itself.

 

To you maybe, but not to us.

Another idiocy. Krishna has fought many wars and won them and was a superb martial artist. Only Arjuna could match him.


I had stated this before and I wish to state this again. If suppose you had a lover ( which is a bit hard to imagine ) and you went hiking with her to the woods. Suddenly some vulgar men comes up and makes some comments on her, and decides to outrage her.

Would you then go and try to reason with them saying that "Guys , this is not proper. Women are gentle creatures with a great heart. Please don't harm her."

Most probaby one of the irritated vulgar guys would come up and give you a kick in the balls, so as to make you shut up , so that he can go and do what he was doing, without any dumb lectures from you.

Again idiocy. Krishna after teaching Arjuna, clearly gives him freedom to think for himself and act according to his own thoughts and free will. And Arjuna indeed agrees to it.

 

To you brainwashees, any old bullshit seems 'righteous' so long as it comes from a source you've been brainwashed into believing is 'authoritative'.

You are a clssic example of the unfortunate results of failure to think for your self and question authority, just like the nazi morons who were prepared to murder children for their beloved Furher.

 

For me reason is my authority.


Vasishta to Prince Rama.


Yoga Vasishta says:

Though human in origin, an exposition of truth is to be accepted; otherwise even what is regarded as divine revelation is to be rejected. Even a young boy's words are to be accepted if they are words of wisdom; else reject it like straw even if uttered by Brahma the creator."

-------------
Believe nothing, merely because you have been told it, or because it is traditional or because you yourselves have imagined it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for your teacher. But whatever after due consideration and analysis you find to be conducive to the good , the benefit, the welfare of all beings, that doctrine , believe and cling to and take it as your guide.

- Buddha

The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.

---Thomas Paine



P.S. : You know, continuing with that story, after the vulgar guys had their perverted fun and leave the place laughing, you will go to the sobbing girl, and try to cheer her up, by talking about the beauty of snakes and lsd and stuff, upon which you will get the tightest slap you ever had in your life. And upon which you will also accuse her of being violent and oldfashioned and not thinking for herself, just like you accused me. :&

 

I'd agree that part of the duty of a householder is to provide and protect for his family. It all about the motive for war. If it's just to defend yourself and loved ones I wouldnt even call it war or violence. It's common sense.

 

“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.”

-- George Orwell

 

..and in the end the war you take, is equal to the war...................
you make.....

 

The best example I can think of Hilter, there was no solution to that man except violence. I am a big fan of Ghandi, but his solution wouldnt have worked. Hilter would have gas'ed, shot his way through the whole human race without something sticking up to him.

 

Yes, actually if we can avoid killing any animal including humans then it should be avoided. Almost always there is a choice, but you also have to think about the soldier in the battlefield... the poor guy has to either kill or get killed.

 

Not if he's a conscientious objector. I'm sick of repeating this point - wars are only possible becaise people are ready to fight and die on behalf of others. Often, defending loved one's has absolutely nothing to do with it, other than in the lies and propaganda put out by goverments.

But I think some followrs of Hinduism are stuck with having to support war, or say it's ok at least, because thier scripture tells them so, and they don't think for themselves, but accept it on 'authority'.
There is also the hero worship aspect - the 'warrior' is not a suitable role model if we want peace on this planet.

 

I would indeed criticize hindus , if there are there any, who says the we have to support war because their scripture says so, and does not exercise their own reason and intelligence in the process. This is against the teachings of Vasishta and Krishna and Buddha.

As for the warrior part, perhaps you should know that the kshatriya code is the most ancient warrior code on earth, just like the hindu martial arts are the most ancient martial arts on earth.

A kshatriya , according to vivekananda is someone who fights against injustice and unrighteousness.

According to swami chinmayananda , a kshatriya is one who has sattvic (noble ) ideals ,and work for their realization.


I believe that a warrior is someone who fights for a just cause , any cause it may be. And for this reason even Gandhi and his disciple Martin Luther King are warriors as well. It does not at all has to be violent . Animal rights crusaders are warriors as well.

The world is a dangerous place to live , not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
----Albert Einstein

Just a few thoughts of mine on this subject.

 

So why does Krishna tell arjuna to fight if he's against war? It doesn't make a lot of sense. Don't give me the old crap about a 'righeous war' - I've already made it clear that such a thing doesn't exist. If he had all that miraculous power, why not use to put a stop to the slaughter?

Myself, I take the attitude that any divine power which exists would desire peace on earth. That's why the militaristic gods and religions of the past can't bring peace, because they all use their twisted philosophies to justify warfare, which will probably result in our extinction as a race within the next century.

The 'warrior' is usually a sexually insecure moron.

 

If everyone followed the teachings of Christ, which are a logical way to never enter into conflict with others if it can be avoided with some humility and self-integrity, we would not have this silly wars.

That which was described in the sermon of the mount was that message of peace, and if people had been living by that since it was given, then there would no wars at home, in the hood, and in the world at large. However all prophets know that the world at large does not repent or do good, nor wants to do only good. therefore the message of peace is meant only for ripe hearts in all the different ages.

God established four castes because this world is neither paradise nor heaven, and as the ages roll along people get more greedy, more lustful and more angry; and slowly man loses all sense of universality, peace, self-satisfaction, and finally drops all theism and surrenders only to the craving to conquer, plunge and murder to satisfy his insatiable desires, as his only consistent path.

That is why the stories of great heroes and avatars are so valuable to us in this atheistic and greedy age; they are the only link we have to a golden time of chivalry, and pure forms of spirituality.

The Shrimad Bhagavatam and the Supreme yoga (Yoga Vasistha) are the jewels in the crown of perfect scriptures; yet, what do people read instead? More and more mental garbage each day; and then we wonder why there is so much madness.

 

I don't accept that the caste system is a divine invention. I think it was invented by human beings, and subsequently used by power wielding persons to maintain their grip on power, and their privilidged position.
Same goes where war is concerned. It has always been a tool of those in power to hang onto or extend their power. They don't care about the soldier in the field, or about civilian casualties. If they're killed in a 'righteous war' they'll go to heaven or it's equivalent anyway.
That's the problem. Such an attitude devalues the individual human life.

Personally, I don't like the way in which military images are combined with religious images in many scriptures. It tends to make us think that war must be ok , as god sanctions it.

The teachings in the Gita etc which are of value could easily be presented in a different context, without the military element.

If we are to progress towards a unified world, many of the old scriptures will have to go, along with separate 'religions' which they promulgate.

To hell with the past. It was all a pretty miserable affair. Let's focus on the future and building a better world without wars or rigid social divisions.

 

Impossible.

 

I doubt it. But what makes you say so?

 

Because each man is different, not everyone is a lover of peace.

Look at the arrangement of the caste system (yes we have a fear of that separation)

Brahmana (intelligent class, priests, intelectuals, shamans, teachers, philosophers, psychologists, astronomers, physicists)

ksatryas (warriors, competitors, gamblers, soldiers, cops, athletes, )

Vayshias ( commerce, farmers, cowboys, businessmen, real estate)

Sudras ( workers, servants, the poor, construction workers, slaves)


Who can be all of those? the world needs that variety to survive and to be harmonious.


The Brahmanas are the head, the ksatryas are the hands, the Vayshias are stomach and the Sudras are the legs.

In a body the head should lead,(shamans) not the hands (politicians), if the head leads the body, the body acts for its good benefit, but if the body is headless, then where can it go?

Nowhere.

In the far past, the ksatryas respected the Brahmanas and the Brahamans studied very hard and passed all the tradition to the young. If any exibited
qualities of the other caste, they could be trained for that. For instance Parasurama was born a Brahmana but later took the sword and killed many of his enemies, Krishna was born a Vayshia but later became a king and warrior.

The ksatryas fought and protected the kingdom while taking advice and spiritual guidance from the Brahmanas, giving them anything they asked, and neither one abused their position or power, it was all for the good of the wholle exactly as a body works as one unit, yet different parts, not equal parts.

It is well-known (although it could be argued) that we are born with our personality almost fixed and hard to change, but we may exibit qualities of the four classes. Those who believe in astrology will agree easily with this,
Pisces don't make great warriors, yet Scorpios can't help being one.

Society works better divided since that way each is doing the job best suited for, either by natural birth, or by training.

We cannot all be the same; the society itself would collapse if people were all the same or thought exactly the same.

I think.

 

I have explained this before, you ignoramus. Krishna tells Arjuna to fight the war, because it is against injustice and unrighteousness. If Duryodhana had agreed to the pandavas compromise and gave them their paltry settlements itself, the war would not have happened. But they did not do even that.Hence the war became inevitable, as it is against injustice and unrighteousness, which if left unchecked, will result in more unrighteousness and injustice.

Wimps like you , who will try to negotiate with the vulgar guys I mentioned above, and will get a kick in the balls as a reward, will not understand this.

So are you saying that Krishna and Arjuna , who are famous for their love affairs, are 'sexually insecure morons.'

 

Yes I know the theory, but I tend to look more to the actual practice and results, which are very far from salutory.

I don't think it is posssible to define people simply on the basis of their role in society. And as culture develops, these old categories become more and more irrelevant.
We don't need a 'priest caste' to tell us what to do or what to believe or how to think. As long as all that goes on, we'll never see a genuine spiritual awakening, because it is precisely the old religions with their entrenched dogma, vested power interests and so on that block any true awakening, and keep everything fixed in the hellish state we've seen so much of since the dawn of 'civilization'.

You asked : 'is not war a crazy thing'? I say it is, and the religions that perpetrate it are equally crazy. If it wasn't for Islam for example, perhaps the world would now be enjoying the so called 'peace dividend' we were supposed to get with the ending of the cold war.

If the caste system were just we wouldn't have thousands of untouchables in India suffering the repression and discrimination that currently takes place.

You're absolutely right though to say no two individuals are the same. That's another reason to do away with the 'one size fits all' religions of the past.

 

Silly boy. You get so worked up.

Probably arjuna was sexually insecure. Most machos are. You clearly are, or you wouldn't call others 'wimp'. I can't say Krishna's fairy tale promiscuity sets a very good example for others.

But as usual with religious 'authorities' it's a case of 'do what I say not what I do'.

Either way, if you want a hero to worship, find one without blood on their hands would be my advice.

Wimps like me have had enough of idiots like you who can't think for themselves, or even get free from the culture into which they were born.
This is a 'hippy' forum moron. We want peace, not macho bullshit.

Go wrap yourself in an Indian flag and down a few more beers - perhaps you'll make even more an asshole of yourself than you've demonstarted already.