When, if ever, does a bisexual man become gay?

I consider myself a bisexual man because I enjoy sex with both women and men. For a large part of my adult life I alternated between the two genders, rarely mixing the two at the same time. Then seven years ago, prostate cancer struck. The nerve-sparing surgery was a failure. No erections and no cum - ever again!

I still enjoyed sex with women up to the point of penetration. Despite all the wooing, kissing, caressing and licking, most women want to feel a hard cock in their pussy. No dildo, vibration or even the venerable Rabbit can replace a cock. Some women blamed themselves for my flaccidity. One claimed if I really wanted her I would get hard. The seven-inch scar on my abdomen did little to convince her there was more to the issue than desire.

Without nerves to control the erectile muscles, pills and injections are useless. Pumps stiffen a cock unnaturally, have a short time of use and are painful to use. So I gradually stopped dating women. For the last five years my sex has been exclusively with men.

I still desire women and what I did with them that I don’t do with men. I crave their soft lips, smooth, warm breasts, hard nipples and sweet tasting pussies, but knowing the end is mutual disappointment, I just don’t bother.

Maybe I should just join the gay community

 

What I've heard from the gay community is that gays won't ever really accept previously bi folks as gay.

There might be the gay person who'd have an exclusive relationship with you but I'm not sure they'd ever truly trust you to not want a woman.

 

Aerianne, you may be right. In the 1990s I used to attend a monthly men only party where most of the men were openly gay. They knew I was bi and still welcomed me to their gatherings. However, that was just one night once a month, not a relationship. A few of the men were in a relationship but the rest were just out for a night of sex with multiple partners.

 

While I live with a woman. I am Bi. I must admit that our sex life is very slow. But I do have a gay friend that I see often. He knows my situation and it works well. I look forward to being with him more that my GF, But I don't consider myself gay.

 

When, if ever, does a bisexual man become gay?
I suppose that's totally up to the individuals likes & dislikes. Let's be honest, any sexual act you're involved in with the same sex is considered gay sex. I've never been a fan of the labelling of people based on their sexual preferences as they are their preferences and are none of my business. I always have and always will prefer to have sex with women as they have the full package that gets my motor running. When I occasionally have sex with another man I have but one desire at the moment and it's his cock and only his cock I desire. I could never become emotionally attached to a man like I can/have with a woman. I become emotionally attached/attracted to a woman because she has so many more things to offer me that a man could never provide me other than his cock. But, I suppose any bi-sexual person can become emotionally attracted to their same sex to never experience sex with the opposite sex again...It's all in the individuals sexual preferences if you ask me.

 

In reflection, my comments about becoming gay is a disservice to the gay community. I've known several gay men and attended the wedding of two of them. Those in a relationship were as in love as any heterosexual couple I've ever known. I've had enough cocks through my lips to know I could never have a loving relationship with another man like I do with women. I like the men I have sex with or I wouldn't suck them. I appreciate them, respect them and have even become friends with some. But when it comes down to it, i's really their cocks I'm devoted to.

I guess my original post was self pity at my poor results with women in the past several years. Apologies to all gay men; especially James and Tony, who were reminded me that I don't have the emotions to be gay.

 

It's all good my fellow forum poster...It's places like this where one can ask, share, and maybe figure things out in the end. We're all human beings here for a short time trying to enjoy what life has to offer.

 

When, if ever, does a bisexual man become gay?

its a good question.....having been bi since my first my first m2m hook up at 19, following a girl at 18, I have been attracted by both sexes ever since but having moved from top-vers to pure bottom the last ten years I begin to feel that I am on the gay end of the bisexual scale. While I am still attracted to women, and love to suck pussy as well as cock, it is young ones that do it for me and the likelihood of a 67 year old drawing 20 something women is not so likely.

Whereas with guys I find there are lots of younger guys keen to hook-up with my age group.

what are others experiences?

Sinon

 

You look forward to being with your gay friend more than you do your girlfriend ? Sounds to me like you're subconsciously becoming more gay than bi. I wouldn't be suprised if your gay friend takes notice of this as well... And before you know it, you'll be having gay sex exclusively. Nothing wrong with that at all, but shouldn't you let your girlfriend know that you have a "boyfriend" and that you prefer being with him more than you do her ?

 

I’m a guy who loves women and want to marry a girl but I love all things sex with men I don’t love men or find men’s faces attractive.
I consider myself bisexual

 

In my opinion, bisexual guys don't just "become gay." I've always considered myself bi. When I was in my early 20s I had a "relationship" with another guy who was bisexual with a preference for men that lasted a little more than a year. During that time, I didn't really think about or masturbate to the thought of women at all, as I was focused on "us" and the really good sex we had. That was my first and only "gay relationship" and when we parted ways, I did question my sexuality for a short time. Although we had some amazing times, I still wasn't gay.
Ironically, I've come across a few different gay guys who have tried to convince me to "switch teams" permanently by saying things like only another man can "truly make me happy" or that once I experienced his cock that I'd realize I'm not really into women anymore. Nope. I'm a bisexual guy, that's who I am and who I'll always be.
Are there times when I crave a cock in my mouth or ass more than a woman? Sure, but that still doesn't make me gay. I'm a bisexual guy who loves my wife and really likes cock.

 

When, if ever, does a bisexual man become gay?

When he decides that being gay is what works best for him. But the question presumes that a bisexual man will, could, might, become gay and despite what I've heard some gay men say, being gay is a choice; you're either going to embrace the gay lifestyle or you aren't. Do some bi guys find that gay works better for them? Sure, they do. Nothing to see here... but when you're bi, becoming gay is such a scary thing because society says that being male and homosexual is the worst thing ever so, yeah, the question of becoming gay makes things interesting. I know gay men who like women and pussy. I had a gay boyfriend whom I loved and one of the reasons why he loved me was because... I wasn't gay. He even got to find out why I love women and pussy, too, and he said, "It's not something I'd do all of the time... but I understand you better now." If being gay works for a guy, then it just works but we really need to stop buying into the hype of being gay or fearing it or getting into anything that isn't going to allow us to be the man and person we may need to be - and even if that means adopting a gay lifestyle.

 

Now that sounds like fun Capt. I'd go for that in a heartbeat. I do still love women. I love the way they smell, kiss, how soft they feel but as far as sex I'd much prefer men. As far as a romantic relationship with a with a man I don't see that ever happening but who knows? I'm definitely Bi that leans much more gay than straight. I've learned at my age to never say never.

 

If you're "definitely bi that leans much more gay than straight" then why couldn't you imagine yourself in a romantic relationship with another man? Isn't intimacy/romance a part of sexual relationships?
As a bisexual guy (who's married to a woman), I actually enjoy intimacy with other men. If I were single, I'm pretty sure I could envision myself in a long-term intimate/romantic relationship with another guy, just as, if not more easily than I could imagine myself ending up with another woman.
I realize everyone is DIFFERENT, and I'm just curious as to why you couldn't see yourself in an intimate relationship with another guy if you "lean much more gay than straight?"
Absolutely no judgement here, I'm just curious as to why others feel the way they do.
Whatever your reasoning is, it's all good.

 

I'd not agree that intimacy/romance is a part of sexual relationships. Really, most guys have zero interest in being romantic with other guys: They want to get laid and, well, I don't like putting it this way but if it's romance you want, that's what women are for and as I've heard said many times before. I could never see myself in a romantic relationship with a man... until I found myself in one. It was amazing and I learned a lot but going forward? Never say never but when it comes to men, the last thing I want is romance - and there are way too many men who feel the same way. Let's just slake our lust upon each other and not make this any more complicated than it already is.

There is nothing wrong with just having sex with guys and just like there's nothing wrong with requiring/needing romantic interest and content to go along with the sex. I dislike the implication that a bisexual man is going to become a gay one and then be all romantic and all that good stuff when there are gay men who don't go looking for a relationship - but they're more than happy to bed you and enjoy some nasty good fun.

I stand by what I said earlier. A bi guy becomes a gay guy if and when he decides that being gay suits his purposes in life.

 

Here on this board-we all know that no one "chooses"to be bi; neither does anyone choose to be gay or straight- we ARE what we ARE------let the bigots and the uneducated jerks say what they will-----REGARDLESS of what you are-REFUSE to be "labeled"-------as long as the sexual relations you enjoy are consensual-and are of legal age-------ENJOY your sex life to the fullest-and disregard those who refuse to realize the truth about "orientation"---------

 

I get that it's said that being bi is "on the way to being gay." I've heard gay men tell me this and as if they're trying to convince me that I should be gay when, with no disrespect to any gay man, being gay is the last thing I'd want to be. Some guys go from bi to gay - good for them but to insinuate that a bi guy is eventually going to become a gay man is... bullshit and, I think, one the reasons why a lot of men are leery about expressing their bisexuality because the "specter of gayness" looms over male bisexuality like a dark cloud for them.

Make no mistake: The sex is homosexual but the men who engage in it aren't all homosexual and not all of them would ever want to be gay - and we need to be clear about this.

 

I feel exactly the same.. thanks for that.

 

Some people are monolingual, some bilingual, some trilingual, and so on. Learning additional languages requires a lot of effort, especially the relatively more difficult languages, which is why most people never get beyond beginner level.

If you only use one language most of the time, that doesn't change the fact that you are bilingual, trilingual and so on.

There are probably also narrow-minded nationalists who are proud to speak only their mother tongue. When it comes to sexuality, the common man vehemently defends HIS "homosexuality", not realising that the concept, like the Greek-Latin hybrid term (homos + sexus), was only created at the end of the 19th century.

Heterosexual
Mostly Heterosexual

Bisexual: More Heterosexual
Bisexual without a heterosexual or homosexual preference
Bisexual: More Homosexual

Mostly Homosexual
Homosexual
​

Alternatively:

Straight
Mostly Straight = Straight Plus

Bi-Straight
Bi-Bi
Bi-Gay/Lesbian

Mostly Gay/Lesbian = Gay/Lesbian Plus
Gay/Lesbian
​

And for those who prefer a completely neutral terminology of epidemiology:

MSWM = Men who have sex with women and men
MSW = Men who have sex with women
MSOW = Men who have sex only with women (Subset of MSW)
MSM = Men who have sex with men
MSOM = Men who have sex only with men (Subset of MSM)

WSMW = Women who have sex with men and women
WSM = Women who have sex with men
WSOM = Women who have sex only with men (Subset of WSM)
WSW = Women who have sex with women
WSOW = Women who have sex only with women (Subset of WSW)​

The use of these terms does not imply that a specific behaviour or desire is hardwired; in fact, we know very little about the biological basis of sexual behaviour.

Men are afraid of being denied their masculinity and thus relegated to the lowest status in the male world. Not very brave, but all too human, and indicative of the weak worm that the individual man is in relation to the society in which he lives.

In traditional terminology this is called TRADE, in modern terminology STRAIGHT PLUS, or MOSTLY HETEROSEXUAL. Such men should never call themselves BISEXUAL in the gay sphere, as they have not yet made it that far.

Why is that? Anyone who is bisexual feels just as much at home in the straight sphere as in the gay sphere. Anyone who distances themselves from homosexuality at every opportunity and is a stranger in the LGB world is merely straight plus. Bisexual wannabes. Just like gay men who only want to play around with female genitalia. Bisexual men are neither afraid of being called straight on one occasion nor gay on another.

True for TRADE/STRAIGHT PLUS. But Bisexuality = Heterosexuality + Homosexuality. Nothing less.

Jane Ward writes in Not Gay (2015) from a queer perspective:

“While some degree of insistence that one is not gay is generally part and parcel of heteroflexibility, a more significant distinction is that people who identify as heterosexual, unlike gay men and lesbians, are generally content with straight culture or heteronormativity. They enjoy heterosexual sex, but more importantly for the purpose of this book, they enjoy heterosexual culture. Simply put, being sexually normal suits them. It feels good. It feels like home.

Unfortunately, the domain of culture is generally lost in popular discourses about sexual desire, which focus largely on whether homosexual activity is either chosen or biological. This entire framing is far too simplistic. People certainly have tendencies toward particular objects of desire, including bodies defined in their time and place as the same or the opposite from their own. And yet, for the vast majority of us, these tendencies, whatever they may be, are shaped and experienced under the constraints of heteronormativity, or within culture strongly invested in opposite sex coupling.

The amount of psychic and cultural labor expended to produce and enforce heterosexual identification and procreative sexuality, suggests that heterosexuality, as we now know it, is hardly an automatic human effect. It is for this reason that scholars of heterosexuality have described it as a psychic and social accomplishment, an institution, and a cultural formation.

Of course, the traditional view of sexuality is that heterosexuality is nature's design, the driving force behind human reproduction and the gendered division of labor that keeps societies running. For example, the unpaid care work done by women to sustain children and male laborers.

In the last several decades, this view has been slightly revised to account for the existence of the homosexual, who is now typically understood to result from a harmless hormonal or genetic aberration in nature's plan. But from a queer perspective, sexual desire is not determined by bio-evolutionary processes, but is instead fluid and culturally contingent.

As first elaborated by Freud in three essays on the theory of sexuality, nature may provide human infants with sexual desire. If this desire takes form as polymorphous capacity to experience pleasure in response to a broad range of stimuli, including an array of one's own bodily functions, as well as various modes of contact with objects, animals, and humans of all types, it is only through disciplined conformity to societal norms, typically directed by parents that young children's sexual impulses are redirected toward a sanctioned and most often singular object of desire, most often a person of the opposite sex.

Hence, from both psychoanalytical and social-constructionist perspectives, the hetero/homo binary is not the essential order of things, but the product of cultural norms and political economic imperatives, and yet sexual binaries often feel natural because they are internalized in early childhood, resulting in strong sexual and gender identifications. But central to the larger project at hand is the question of what happens to all of these polymorphous desires once they are repressed in the service of conformity to prevailing sexual norms.

For Freud, the process of sublimating these desires in order to achieve heterosexuality and normative gender is not an easy one. Instead it is tenuous, labored, and requires the disavowal and loss of original homosexual attachments. Moreover, this loss cannot be recognized or grieved, as doing so would expose the fragility and constructedness of heterosexuality. As the philosopher Judith Butler has argued, this bind produces a unique form of melancholy, a kind of repressed sadness that is generated as heteromasculinity comes into being through the disavowed and unworned loss of homosexual possibilities. Psychoanalytical accounts of sexuality provide us with some language for thinking about the psychic life of those repressed homosexual attachments, which take form in the fantasies and fetishes of heterosexuals.”​

And of course Ward is thinking of trade/straight plus men:

Shapiro points out that what is noteworthy about the media's treatment of these scandals is the way that reporters and other commentators took for granted that these men's claims to heterosexuality were hypocritical, ludicrous, and tragic.

By the mid-2000s, commentators could rely on the general public's agreement that any man who identifies as heterosexual and who also has sexual encounters with men must be lying to both himself and his family about who he really is.

Such a view stands in contrast with earlier, more flexible and forgiving interpretations of sexuality documented by Chauncey, Humphries, and Howard.

Just a few decades earlier in American sexual history, these same scandalous encounters would likely have been understood differently, as momentary acts of defiance, as expressions of inexplicable eccentricity, and or, as mistakes that family and community members could agree to forget.

[…]

As I have argued in the preceding chapters, the primary litmus for what counts as heterosexuality versus queerness should be the cultural and relational investments of the participants.

That is, are there same sex-sex practices anchored within heterosexual culture and conceptualized through the logics of heterosexuality?

Where are the participants' sex practices shaped by queer ideas, queer subculture, and queer politics?

Because I understand BISEXUALITY as a mode of queerness, one marked bisexual desire that is non-gender specific, or that extends to masculinity, femininity, and gender queerness.”​

[…]

I came to my own interest in heterosexuality, and in this project, as I observed straight identified people, compulsively pointing to queerness, like a compass always pointing in the same direction.

Straight boys and men in particular persistently call on fags to occupy the earnest, immutable, and genital, and often tragic space of ostensibly unchosen and unwanted homosexuality.

When gay boys and men occupy this narrow space, presumably the space of real homosexuality, the possibilities for heterosexual engagement with same-sex sexuality expand.

In many ways, gay men and lesbians perform a kind of unpaid labor for straights, embodying the symbolic and romanticized position of sincere gayness, and amplifying the normalcy of those whose homosexuality is insincere and meaningless.”

[…]

Indeed, it is in telling stories of gay true love, whether of the homophobic or the pro-gay variety, that proclamations of heterosexuality find one of their more compelling outlets. This late 20th century turned to love, domesticity, and family making as defining features of gay life, was clearly a joint effort, one embraced by gays and straights alike.

Gay people and straight people both stood to gain, at least superficially, from suppressing images of leatherclad BDSM practitioners, radical fairies, angry lesbian feminists, trans people, street punks, aides activists, diesel dikes, and other queer freaks who are giving good gays a bad name.

As historian Lisa Dugan has described, this homonormative turn, paired with growing acceptance of sociobiological theories of sexual orientation, swelled the ranks of complacent, neoliberal subjects, and shifted gay and lesbian attention away from revolutionary projects, and toward middle-class aspirations and allegiance to the nation.

But beyond this investment in turning gays into legible and complacent subjects, straights have arguably benefited in other ways from gay subjectivities' detachment from its earlier associations, with promiscuous, impersonal, abject, transactional, performative, and experimental homosexuality.

With gay identity now tethered to love and biology, these other forms of homosexual relating can be more easily taken up by straights, as they are increasingly believed to be distinct from the true meaning of gayness, monogamous same-sex love, and the gay and lesbian families presumed to ultimately result from this love.

The recent reduction of gay politics to the rights of the romantic couple is evidenced by the nearly-exclusive focus on same-sex marriage in the last decade. A focus that, while perhaps temporary and strategic, has nearly subsumed popular discourse about what it means to be gay.

In sum, when the field of queer erotics has narrowed with this turn to homonormative love, the field of heteroerotics is ever-expanding to include performative same-sex hookups, drunk in homosexual accidents, mouth-to-anus games and rituals, bromantic stunts, and homosexual daring-do, all of which carry no identity or structural consequences.

I am not suggesting a direct, casual relationship between the cultural turn to gay love and the emergence of heteroflexibility discourses, but rather a convergence of mutually complementary forces, as the gay movement continues its transformation into a pack-funded celebration of homonormative love.

It becomes more difficult to conflate naughty, casual, and disavowed homosexual encounters with gay identity, as gay identity is now so commonly represented by the image of out, proud, and respectable gay couples."
​

If straight plus men call themselves straight in the heterosexual sphere, then that is not true, but not my problem. But if they call themselves bisexual in the homosexual sphere, then that is unacceptable. Because the readers of the Penis Worshippers’ posts believe that this is what bisexuality looks like. And bisexuals will believe that they are dealing with fellow bisexuals and not just trade.

 

I am 77 and in a loving but sexless marriage. I had my first m2m over 40 years ago. I have tried to surpress my desires but they would always come back In the last few years I have lost all interest in sex with women. Female porn does nothing for me but I get very turned on watching guys suck cocks and swallow cum