When I ask a question...

A friend.

 

well, in much the same way that you use any tool, really.

Can you use a hammer without identifying with it? How about a fork?

 

It can also be used as a kind of evasion by those who don't actually have a way of getting to the destination.

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Yes, really a lot of it is simply changing the nature of the beast. People confuse self effacement with egolessness. Or humility. Both are good qualities no doubt that endear those who have them to us, but to have trascended the ego is quite another thing, and one which IMO is followed by a descent back into the ego consciousness. The ego consciousness may then be changed in its actual effective manifestations and actions by the experience.

 

OK - but taking the hammer example - you'd say well, you pick it up like this, and bang it down like so.

So if the ego is a hammer, what is the actual mechanism or process by which it can help others to change their consciousness?

 

suffering.

 

Conversation of course.

When I talk to you, we are using words as a medium to understand each other's thoughts, or at least come as close as we can to appreciating the true nature of each other's thought (which will never be a true understanding)

When you take in my words, you already have pre-conceived notions, assumptions, and connotations about the words I am using. They invoke things in you. If I'm trying to express myself to you, I'm trying to invoke the feeling that I'm feeling in you using my words.

I'm sure you are aware that not all things can be told, just experienced?

The point of using the ego as a tool to help others attain a shift in consciousness is similar. You can't just tell them about it. You have to invoke the proper train of thought, and sort of guide them along the way. Only they can do it themselves, you are just a helping hand.

Not that I have the capacity to facilitate spiritual growth in others, by any means.

 

We disagree on this.

 

I notice that it's OK when questions arise and I welcome them. Many have dropped off naturally and no longer arise. Some still do and I notice that a response (or answer) isn't even necessary, I can merely observe them come and go. And recently I've observed one particular question arise often. And I'm not sure that it's so much a question... in a sense it is, in another sense it feels to be more of a pointer.

The question is.... "Why do I need to resist this?"

And as I look deeply into whatever "this" is... whether it's something that someone says or does, or a thought that comes in, or a feeling that arises, or some event or physical manifestation.... I notice that "this" is perfectly OK exactly as it is. What is, is, and that's OK.

As I notice this I feel such peace and joy. There's no need to resist or to make this moment wrong, however it appears. It is perfect exactly the way it is. It SHOULD be, as it is, because it is already that.

And so "Why do I need to resist this?". Well, I don't.

And then in the space of nonresistance, the question/answer passes.

 

You don't feel any obligation to participate, to help others along their way by challenging them, guiding them...? You'd rather just let the moment pass and the problem solve itself?

Did you achieve your position on your own without such help? or do you just not care?

 

It's not through obligation that I participate. At least not obligation in the sense that: this is something that I do because I "should" when the natural desire to give is lacking. And how would I know what is helpful? Who am "I" to guide others? I've come to recognize that it makes the most sense and feels the most inherently aligned and peaceful for me to offer no internal resistance to the present moment. And because of this I can allow something to flow through "me", through this vehicle I call "me", to flow with the natural extension that arises. There's no decision, really. Action arises on its own naturally.

What else is there besides letting the moment pass? NOT letting it? Resisting it? The moment arises, it either invokes action or it doesn't, and then it passes. That's it. That's all there is. Anything else is a story we tell ourselves. Any resistance is willfulness and ignorance.

The problem. Where is the problem? What is the problem? Calling something a problem is just a way of interpreting what is, and not a very helpful one at that. It invokes resistance in the very labeling of it.

I don't have a position and if I do I'm mistaken. And I didn't/don't achieve anything on "my" own. How could I? Caring arises in great abundance in the space of nonjudgment, nonresistance and nonattachment.

 

I don't think any of that is true.

I don't know why you'd post here if you thought you had so little to contribute, frankly. And I think you are offering "resistance" as you call it. It is unnatural not to react, and self-indulgent to make your only reaction the denouncement of reaction.

Que sera sera. So basically you're using the desire to curb the ego as an excuse for indolence?

You're right that it's a story. So what? Tell me why these stories we tell ourselves are so bad. Because so far you're not presenting a very positive impression of the alternative.

Yes, let's argue semantics, that'll be totally worthwhile!

I am curious: can you conceive that this avoidance of resistance could, in itself, become resistance. Do you not wonder if you obstruct others with your resistance? Or would all our lives be better if we resisted nothing? Would yours, even?

You're right: how could you achieve anything?

If you received assistance in achieving, it is arrogance and selfishness not to "return" the favour to those in an equivalent position to that which you previously occupied. I am sure you can argue a way that you actually don't owe anyone a thing because that would somehow be resistance or ego-based or whatever, but unless you truly consider your current situation contemptible I doubt you'd be able to offer a justification I wouldn't find to be sickeningly lax.

You have a position. Your position may be total, philosophically-justified passivity, but to say you don't have one is absurd. You are at a point on the continuum of your lifetime. The point is your position. Certain events have conspired to take you there. It is unlikely that your opinions, your philosophy, this ideology to which you subscribe, have come to you without cause.

I'm sure this will all "flow through" you, if you want it to. Probably no-one would be interested in knowing the answers to my questions, and if they do, so be it, the moment will pass, right?

 

I get that you see things differently.

 

And you wish to agitate others as punishment for their ego-based curiosity about the way you see things?

 

What I find helpful about discussion board interactions is to witness all the interpretations that take place. We look at someone (or what they say/write) through our own filters, although we don't realize we're seeing them through our filters because we're not aware of the presence of these filters. These filters are stories (judgments).... stories we tell ourselves about others, stories we tell ourselves about ourselves. And then we think that's the way it is. That's they way "they" are. That's the way "we" are.

We don't even see people. We see our stories about them. These stories are projected ahead and are superimposed on everyone we meet. We don't realize the error is in the projector, not in the image that's being projected.

This is always a helpful reminder for me, to stay vigilant and observe the propensity for this process within myself.

Thank you.

 

Yeah, this isn't really news. 20th Century structuralists and post-structuralists have fairly thoroughly mapped this situation out. These "stories", or "myths" as they're known, as well-documented as informing culture and perpetuating ideology.

However, neither Levi-Strauss, Barthes nor those that followed, imagined that one could only remedy this situation by withdrawing from judgment of any kind. I doubt they would even have considered this situation to need to be remedied.

We benefit from being aware of these myths, but to abandon them purely because we are aware of them destroys our identity. Maybe that's what you want, but the identity is not replaced, and I've no reason to believe that any better state fills the vacuum either.

Frankly, I think it is foolish to imagine that you can shed these stories. You can become aware of them, and you can try to avoid seeing through them. But as you say, you can't see them. So how can you know if you've got rid of them? If you see through them your whole life, chances are there's a lot of them. Given the alternative - to simply be aware that your judgement can be coloured by "stories" - I'd say trying to be story-less is comparatively foolish and worthless, and likely unattainable anyway. I certainly think that you are very much seeing the world through your own stories. You are naïve if you believe otherwise.

I've heard similar arguments made time and again (although in those cases, projection was being used in a "I know you are but what am I?" fashion, rather than as a justification for inertia), and no, sorry, not all error is a projection. Some things actually do need fixing. Other things may not need to be fixed, but will benefit from being observed as in need of improvement, and benefit others in being improved. Maybe you're not right for the job, but I hope you would not consider those who would do better at it to be "projecting".

And don't say "improved by whose measure" or whatever, because seriously, booooooring.

Doesn't seem to be working, frankly. You're explaining the glaringly obvious. Did you imagine that I must be unaware of these "stories" of which you speak?

 

You know, in every post I see of yours you share your philosophy and world view. And what I realize is that you're absolutely right in everything you say. Everything you hold to be true brings to you your experience of life. This is true for you, for me, for everyone. What we believe, we experience. We are always right for this experience. And the criticisms that we hold, of what others believe or how they communicate or don't communicate, these all serve to reinforce our view of life. So I respect that you see what you see and how you see it. And there's no need to change any of it. And of course if you see me as wrong, then I am wrong. Absolutely. I am everything that you say I am. Because that is what you see and it could not be otherwise.

So for me, knowing that I am the projector of everything I see, and since I am always left with my internal experience, I look and see what that experience is. Am I at peace? Do I feel joy within? Change only comes when we are open to it. And we become open simply because what we experience isn't satisfactory to us. It's typically our suffering that invites a change in perspective. So when I look and see you as anything but beautiful, anything other than a gift for me, I am left with disturbance and dissatisfaction. I can hold on to that if I want, of course, but then as long as I continue to try to tweak the image rather than the projector, I will fail in my attempts to change my inner reality. I have come to realize this and no longer waste (much) time in this futile pursuit.

It is never for me to suggest for anyone to change. Why should I? Why should they? It is only for those who doubt the absolute truth of their vision that sharing becomes helpful. When the student is ready the teacher appears, as they say. And the only thing that teaches, really, is modeling peace and joy. Anything else is bullshit, frankly.

 

Why do you say 'I am the projector of everything I see'?
Do you think the universe is a projection?
Onto what is it being projected? A screen of consciousness?

I hope you do feel joy within -

 

Nature...

The ultimate manifestion of the mind.

 

hahahaha