When did 1960's liberals who 'hate the govt' start loving this $35T monster?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Coachdb18, Jun 10, 2023.

  1. Coachdb18

    Coachdb18 Supporters HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    313
    We got the hell out of CA as the COL was just insane. The economy in CA is nuts they don't want a middle class just the uber rich and the servant

    (There, fixed that for you)

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Coachdb18

    Coachdb18 Supporters HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    313
    The real issue that state control of education offers is school choice, charter schools, and school vouchers that moves education funding with the students school choice. An additional issue is the weaponization of school boards, who have been proven to collude with federal law enforcement to identify parents as 'terrorists'. Take the federal government off the backs of parents who demand responsible teaching standards.

    Latest data just released shows that public schools are failing miserably in comparison with charter schools, and further, show that lower income/minority (black/latino) students fare even better progress than their middle class and majority (white) contemporaries.
     
  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    20,996
    Likes Received:
    15,216
    Do you have data to back this up?
    The federal government weaponizes school boards to identify parents as terrorists? Really? Data please.

    Charter schools.

    First of all charter schools are free public schools run by the state or local government.
    They are not private schools.
    They are paid for by taxes.
    They currently seem to operate at about the same level of proficiency in regards to student outcomes.
    (As of 2020) Much of the gain they experience over traditional public schools comes from the fact that they have select students.
    To enter a charter school a student must have an inclination to attend the particular specialty that the school provides, resulting in more dedicated students.
    Many charter schools have a disproportionate number of English language students as opposed to traditional public schools in the same area. (Which means fewer English as a second language students, who are harder to teach.) They may also have a lower number of special needs students. For example Souderton Cs Collaborative in PA is ranked in the top 5% of all schools in PA. But it only enrolls 235 students in grades K through 8. The student/teacher ratio is 8 to 1 as opposed to 14/1 average in all other PA schools. Which means a lower teacher to student ratio which leads to better learning.
    Finally 43% of the students are Asian, who typically perform better in school verses 37% of the student body in traditional public schools being made up of blacks and Hispanics, who typically due worse than average.

    Charter schools tend to have stricter disciplinary rules as they have a limited number of student openings and can expel behavior problem students easier than traditional public schools as the student then is enrolled in those traditional public schools.
    They can also jettison low scoring children by targeted "harassment".

    And I haven't even started on vouchers.
     
    Tishomingo, Flagme15 and wrat1 like this.
  4. Coachdb18

    Coachdb18 Supporters HipForums Supporter

    Messages:
    393
    Likes Received:
    313
    Charter schools outperform public schools in US, with NY results ‘among the best in the country’: study

    According to the research:

    • Overall, the charter-school students’ performance reflected the equivalent of 16 days more of learning on average a year in reading than their local traditional public school (TPS) students and six days more of learning in math.
    • Compared to their TPS peers, urban charter-school students had 29 additional days of growth per year in reading and 28 additional days of growth in math.
    • The performance of charter-school students in New York City and upstate were among the top in the US
    • Black and Hispanic students in charter schools across the US fared better than their traditional school peers by large margins in both math and reading, as did students in poverty.
    The United Federation of Teachers sought to dismiss the positive findings for charter school students cited in the independent Stanford U. study.


    Charter schools outperform public schools in US, with NY results 'among the best in the country': study (nypost.com)
     
  5. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

    Messages:
    7,091
    Likes Received:
    9,368
    so you're talking about the republican party.
     
  6. Flagme15

    Flagme15 Members

    Messages:
    7,091
    Likes Received:
    9,368
    Is that you coach?
     
  7. Death

    Death Grim Reaper Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    16,214
    Likes Received:
    289
    Dammit we haven't even had a break from the last election cycle yet..
    It seems like perpetual campaigning without anything actually being done.

    how come we never hear about any of these senile octagenarians just "not waking up one day"?

    IDGAF who is in office.. Just get me healthcare so I can have replacement parts everytime I need to go to the repair shop just like these windbags.... GIMME MY FREEEDOMMZZZ - I wanna be free to do drugs or change my body or defend myself how I see fit... and I damn sure don't give a shit what anyone else is doing as long as it doesn't affect me.. Go ahead and teach whatever you want in schools, and if I don't like it, I can send my kid to the school down the street that teaches something different.

    Is there a test for lead poisoning? I feel like every high profile politician should be tested.
     
    Theactualmostfallen likes this.
  8. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    6,208
    ...
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2024
  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    20,996
    Likes Received:
    15,216
    Yes, well I addressed this issue in my last post. For example your source lists the achievements of Success Academy. I gave you several reasons for their success, student to teacher ratio, low needy student enrollment, and high Asian enrollment.

    From the study:
    That is 64%, or well over half, have equal or lower results than traditional public schools. Even with all their advantages.

    So what does all this mean?
    First of all the title is misleading, as charter schools are public schools, how can they be outperforming public schools, which they are?
    Second, if you lower the student to teacher ratio, you get better results.
    Third, if you have more motivated students, you get better results.
    This is a June 6, 2023 comment on the current Credo report. (Raymond is the founder and director of CREDO) It is saying that the charter schools that were looked at in the study reviewed the applicants to those schools and got better at choosing who they admitted resulting in a higher class of learner. And apparently they are better at removing unwanted students at the "point of renewal".
    Fourth online charter schools performed terribly, in relation to traditional public schools.
    Fifth, as I said, special education students are doing poorly in charter schools.
    (My italics)
     
    Tishomingo likes this.
  10. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    5,164
    Likes Received:
    710
    Not sure why a special education student would gravitate to a charter school. Seems that the trad schools do a much better job catering to them. What percent of all students would be special education?

    We are approaching a two tier educational system. It will have both good and bad points.

    Let the demand from parents of the students be the indicator of performance instead of dueling partisan studies from Left and Right.
     
  11. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Messages:
    20,996
    Likes Received:
    15,216
    First remember that in many cases charter schools are exempt from many state public school regulations.
    That being said charter schools cannot op out of excepting special needs students....but students must apply to charter schools and then be accepted. Traditional public schools must take everyone, no exceptions. Now charter schools aren't allowed to “counsel out” students they don't want. But guess what? As charter schools may have special behavioral rules, or high achievement standards......:
    Trade schools may not be able to handle special needs students, that is students with physical disabilities, such as blindness, paralysis, brain damage, etc. or cognitive disorders, or behavior problems. For instance in one of the traditional public schools I worked in, I taught a blind child, deaf children, and we had those in wheelchairs that had to wear helmets to protect their brain cage, and those who needed "wrap arounds" that is those children who had to have a dedicated adult aide with them at all times due to behavior disorders.

    This is all in addition to I.E.P.s which are individual instruction packets outlining special instruction requirements of individual students.
    For example in one class of thirty students I have had those who could only take multiple choice tests, those who had to have tests read to them, those who had to have word banks on tests, those who could only take match the answer to the question tests, those who couldn't speak English and had to leave the room to have the test interpreted, in addition to those who required being seated away from the windows or doors, or rear of the room or front of the room, etc.

    In 2021 2022 there were about 7.3 million special needs students or 15%.
    We have always had a two tier educational system. Those who have money or live in rich districts get better educations.
    How would that work?
     
  12. newo

    newo Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Messages:
    12,336
    Likes Received:
    12,804
    Coach, we've come this far and you have yet to clarify exactly what it is that's costing $35 trillion!
    I Googled it, seems the Pentagon made $35 trillion in accounting adjustments in 2019. The national debt is approaching $35 trillion but you can't believe 1960s liberals love such a debt.

    Liberals want a balanced budget like everyone else, and want our taxes to go to the right places. We spend 10 times as much on military as we do on education! That's around $750 billion a year, much more than any other country, 3 times as much as second-place China!

    Instead of eliminating the Department of Education let's scale back military spending. Even a 10% cut would save $75 billion.
     
    MeAgain and Tishomingo like this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice