Whats your position on flag burning?

All prostesting isn't rebelious high-school kids looking to piss someone off. Sometimes making someone uncomfortable is the best way to get your message across.

While, I don't believe that wanting to get in trouble should be the root cause of buring a flag, the option of burning the flag always needs to be available.

 

I know that, and I understand what you are getting at, but this is different than just making someone uncomfortable. This is something you know people aren't rational about, and you know that that kind of person isn't going to change for any message. Something less inflammatory is better because it allows for shock value, but not to the point where you insult the audience so much that they become closed off to your message. Saying it's just "their problem they get upset" is a bullheaded way to go about it in my opinion. Sure, it's their problem, but they didn't get the message either, did they? Who does that help?

I didn't say it should be illegal. Not everything that shouldn't be done should be illegal. It should be up to personal discretion whether or not one wants to participate in such an activity, but I think that it is the best decision not to do it. Take it or leave it, that's my opinion, for reasons stated above. I believe it does more harm than good.

 

Sorry about the double post, but:

http://iusbpreface.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/kevin_carter.jpg
^Here is an example of a photo that makes one uncomfortable yet still sends a message. You look at the photo and you SEE that message. It is not up to interpretation. It is rock solid what this photographer intended.

http://deanisrunningformayor.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/flag_burning.jpg
^What is this guy saying?
I hate my country and wish to see it burn?
Freedom and democracy are evil?
I hate the president?
The terrorists were right?
That ought to piss off the right-wingers?
My dad's a marine and I hate him?

I know better now, because I have been on this message board since I was 14, that this is usually a way of saying, "things need to change around here." But to others less familiar, burning the symbol of our country and the freedom it intends to stand for has a very sinister connotation. Personally, I only burn things I want to forget- old cards and love letters, photos of exes that have done me wrong... not something I want to preserve and change for the better.

 

if someone does not have the intellectual capacity to rise above the idolatry of a pice of fabric, well, they need to seek psychiatric help. what does a flag denote? perhaps values, or territorial claims... seems to me the values most represented by the american flag, presently, are globalism, greed, and blind faith. actually, i lost my train of thought... but c'mon. it's a simple display of disagreement... not blowing up a bus.

 

The difference is that flag burning works both ways. It's not analogous to spitting in someone's face, because it's just as much a spit in the face to say you have no right to burn the flag in a country that's supposedly free.

Yeah...I don't think we should be able to do anything we want, and nothing I said would imply as such. I do think we should do whatever is intelligent, though. Excuse me!

 

psst. your name is an LSD reference and you couldn't keep your train of thought through ten lines...

you shouldn't be questioning ANYONE'S intellectual capacity...


And people worship chemicals, plants, and paper, all the time, don't even get me started on symbols.

The flag is a symbol, not just a piece of fabric.

that's what matters.

And honestly, most people who burn them don't even know what the problem is, so, no, it's not an effective means of protest.

The problems are still there, The protesters are for the most part placated. so, it's all meaningless.

 

Of course it's perfidious; isn't that the point? If you were only enraged by the current administration but still patriotic, you wouldn't burn the flag. Burning the flag is saying, "fuck you" to the country.

 

My middle finger is a symbol. A flower is a symbol. A toilet is a symbol. Anything is a symbol if you want it to be. More importantly, the meaning of symbols can be interpreted just about any way you please. People who advocate flag burning interpret the flag very differently from people like you, who believe that it is a symbol of things that should not be burned, so the flag itself should not be burned.

 

It's not saying "fuck you" to the country -- that's an assumption. Shouldn't we be being rational, scientific thinkers??? Isn't that important for our safety and promulgation?!

It's saying "hello" to the beauty that can only be achieved through burning a flag. Who is to say that someone can't be allowed the freedom to enjoy something they find beautiful? No one -- this is the USA, and we have freedom of expression. Not only that, but it would be a good time to pause, as the flag burns, and reflect upon the nation. It expresses concern and caring for the USA.

 

i agree these things are meaningless. as far as the symbolism of the flag... well that is pretty subjective. and the "right" or "wrongness" of flag burning is dependent upon an individuals perception of said country... i could care less about america, and so could give a damn if someone burned the flag. yet, someone who believes that people have died to uphold our sacred liberties or to spread them (as in 'operation imposing freedom') would be taken aback and mortified at such an act.

and really, why so judgmental? perhaps those who would burn a flag do not perceive the same problems you do.

but back to the inconsequential nature of flag burning... there ARE several methods of 'protest' that are infinitely more effective.

 

You keep bringing up the legality, which I addressed. Fine, let it be legal. Let's take legality out of the equation.
My point is, is it effective? Shouldn't that be more of an issue? Do the benefits outweigh the consequences? I don't think so. Knowing what it does to people gives you the responsibility to weigh the consequences. Be an adult and make the right decision, not because it's illegal, but because it is the right and more effective thing to do.
Give me ONE GOOD REASON why you should burn a flag. One. "Because I can" is not a good enough reason. Not when you think of all the harm it causes. Causing suffering "because you can" is just a dick move.
But I don't think that's what you're saying. You're saying it has a purpose. But you know for a fact that this purpose will be lost on those that the burning of the flag will resonate with most because their emotional response will overwhelm it.
Hippies will always burn flags and patriots will always be kick their asses. Is it right? No. Is it a time-tested law of the universe? Pretty much. This way, the message never gets out and you just end up inciting more violence and hatred and enforcement of stereotypes. Which is totally helpful when you want someone to take your message seriously.

I didn't mean it like that. I meant just because something has purpose in your mind, that doesn't mean everyone is going to take it your way and if they don't they don't deserve the message. That is what is implied when someone says "if they get upset over this, that's their problem" (I'm paraphrasing of course. If this is not what you meant either, please correct me).

 

i disagree with the whole 'right or wrong' nature of your argument. right and wrong are concepts of a most subjective nature. also, since when has burning a flag inflicted suffering? it is a dramatic and visible sign of someone's disdain for the practices of his or her government. i have a hard time fathoming someone stepping to an individual and doing something such as this. any flag burning i have known about has always been directed towards the powers that be (if you have witnessed otherwise, don't mind me). as far as "hippies burning flags" and "patriots kicking ass", i disagree with that also. i'm not entirely sure (being that i am in no way a legal scholar), but isn't flag burning protected under the first amendment? if so, then torching a flag is far more patriotic than beating someone down for their beliefs... that's kinda oppressive, and counter productive to the pursuits of liberty and equality.

 

I don't think that it causes harm, though. I think that's a choice people make -- to make assumptions about another's intentions and be harmed by it. I think these assumptions are what is truly harmful.

Someone burning a flag...it shouldn't be anything. A flag is a means of identification. Who ever decided it was something sacred? I don't remember a vote on that. Lives are sacred, but majority or minority doesn't get to decide that a flag utterly represents human lives. To me, people's lives can't possibly be summed up in red, white, and blue. They're more precious than that.

The reason flag burning is so taboo is because such importance is placed upon it. But I guess there are deeper questions as well, such as strength. What happens to the USA if we decide burning the flag isn't a matter of concern? Will we suddenly become a bunch of losers somehow? I mean, is it really making us strong somehow, to hold it up as something sacred?

If so, it wouldn't be symbolic of utter freedom, because for one thing, you can't burn it. You aren't safe to that degree.

You can't always be concerned about other people taking you wrong, though. As long as no one is being physically injured or reasonably mentally injured, I don't think anyone has the right to try and force their own ideal upon them.

Not that I even want to burn a flag... I mean, I would sit and watch one burn...fires are interesting...

 

You know what? I quit. No one is getting my point and I'm done repeating myself. If you don't agree that's fine. I don't think I can explain it any more clearly than I have.
It's not about right and wrong. It's about respecting your fellow man enough not to go out of your way to emotionally hurt him to make a point. Have fun making old war widows cry and pretending it's their fault they're crying and what you're doing is noble and peacebringing.

 

I think the right should be protected,however upsidown flags are more effective.

 

Old war widows should get in touch with their emotions. I mean, would they really cry because of the so-called "disrespect"...or would they be crying because of memories of their husband, whom they shouldn't forget anyway, and, one would assume, wouldn't want to forget.

If burning a flag doesn't bring peace, it's just not the flag burner's fault. I find it disgusting that some people are just so tyrannical by nature that they think everyone has to agree with their point of view.

 

Your lack of respect for other people is nihilism to the extreme. Maybe it doesn't mean a lot to you but that flag to a lot of people means a lot of things, that's like complaining because you went to a Synagogue and burned a star of david and people got all emotional

 

Fuck you, asshole. I never told you you have no respect -- which you don't. You don't even know me and you think you get to determine whether I have respect or not. You're a dumbfuck.

What it comes down to is...

It's a matter of opinion, which way best expresses love of country. And you dumb pieces of shit think it's totally up to you to determine which is best, at threat of violence. You just assume automatically that it can't POSSIBLY represent a "burning" love of country, as it were. I would LOVE to live in a country where I could burn my flag without someone saying I'm a piece of shit or threatening to, maybe...kill me. Yeah, I would love that country.

No, it's not like that at all. You're just assuming that everyone agrees that the flag means the same thing. We're not ALL Jewish, but we're ALL Americans. If I was a Jew, maybe I'd burn the Star of David in a synagogue. That's their business.

Sorry for calling you stupid...I mean, not everyone thinks in the same way. But you ought to figure it out. At least try to understand, maybe.

 

Wow. You totally told us.

I'm not telling you how to think or threatening you with violence by my hand (though it's something you should expect as a possible consequence should you choose to do this). I'm telling you that it is more compassionate to be aware of others' feelings instead of placing your own before them in this matter.

Also, in my opinion (as in, you don't have to agree, but I'm saying it anyway- this non-tyrannical enough for you?), your "burning love" metaphor is a failure. Fire CONSUMES what it burns, reducing it to nothing but ash. I find that the connotation associated with burning something is never good.

 

Yeah...I'm not out burning flags anyway. It doesn't even occur to me. But for that person who it does -- and surely there must be someone, or why the discussion in the first place -- I can't deny them their right.

It's about symbolism... You can't just determine what something represents to all other people. You just don't have that right. You don't find the burning symbolism compelling -- that's you.