Whats your position on flag burning?

I protest flags by burning the flag. I don't think flags have been all that useful. Nothing cardboard couldn't have done.

I'm not some guy who gets all giddy about a sheet of cloth, and it's disturbingly unjust that I'm expected to. It's just like working for some corporation you have to cheer for. I'm just not disposed to doing that.

What am I, a freak?! Should I be burned at the stake for providing a little perspective? I just don't share your disposition. I have my own personal reasons for enjoying watching the flag burn. Nothing villainous, just a daydreamin and watching old glory burn. It's no big deal. We must remember always that we are essentially lost, and even a nation of comfort can't disguise that fact.

 

Just like that flag on the moon.
You might be on to something here, neon.

 

Iowa man sentenced to 16 years for setting LGBTQ flag on fire

I feel like while this sentencing makes a statement in the appropriate direction, that the courts are heavy handed in this case.

We have here an opportunity for the court, at least in Iowa, to say something positive about our LGBTQ members of society as well as their symbology. But the court seems to have misunderstood their role by giving a man 15 years! That's a bucketload of time.

I think someone who does this should be punished. Even made an example of... But I believe that it should be done... less violently. 15 years is too long.

EDIT: I realize that this isn't exactly what the OP means by flag burning and understand if the post is moderated as such. But it seems to me that this action falls into the same category of offense or protected expression.

I would not be surprised if a lawyer gets him out of it though. Again, I believe he deserves some punishment for doing that.

I will even say that I feel more strongly about this than if it were the American flag for one reason: that the LGBTQ community is protected sort of like an endangered species in my book. And that should be taken into consideration in my opinion. It's not his place to decide whether they are represented or not! Outrage, but not 15 years of prison.

 

^
Yes, even though not exactly what this thread is about, its definitely connected to it as a burned symbol (still a flag even ) that represents (in this case) a group.
It may be even worthwile to have such a variety as a comparison in here

I agree, more serious as it stands for an oppressed group of people as opposed to a nation or government as is the case with a copy of the national flag.
But i also agree the sentence is retardedly high if all he did was burn such a flag as a means of protest.

 

Yikes! Clearly your heart is in the right place but this statement is all kinds of cringe...

 

I haven't taken the time to read all 44 pages of replies. But, I'll just attempt to say this as succinctly as I can.

I spent almost 15 years in the U.S. military. I didn't do anything of any particular note...nothing heroic or inspiring. My Father served during WWII. He landed on Utah beach on D-Day. He was in Bastogne during the beginning of the Battle of the Bulge. He was a POW for about 4 days, but escaped from his captors before they could turn him over to a Prisoner Center. He carried shrapnel in his body for the rest of his life, had bad dreams for many years after the war, and his teeth rotted in his head for years...until he could finally get dentures...from a condition referred to as "Trench Mouth". He, of course...was one of the lucky ones. He came home. Many did not.

When a person enlists in any branch of the U.S. military, they swear an oath...to Support and Defend the Constitution of the U.S. There must be a U.S. flag there, for the ceremony. While serving, all military members must pay proper respect to the flag at all times. Veterans gladly pay respect to their flag, when appropriate, by removing their hat, saluting, or placing their hands over their hearts. Whenever I am at some function, and the National Anthem plays, and the American Flag is there...I think of my Father, and all of the Veterans who gave up so much, their youth, their health, their very lives...defending this country, and other nations...and I get a lump in my throat, and my eyes get misty.

This is what the U.S. Flag means to me. I realize to many people...it's nothing more than a colorful piece of cloth. And, don't get me wrong...I don't associate any sort of outrageous powers or attachment to the flag. I would not risk life or limb to keep the flag from touching the ground. But, I see the flag as the ultimate symbol of my country. It represents all that's good about us, and it represents the many sacrifices that men and women have made, over the years, decades, and centuries...to keep our nation free.

I believe the United States is one of the greatest nations on Earth. Perfect? No, not at all. Close to perfect? Not even. As a Nation...we've experienced racism, prejudice, hatred, violence, extremism and fanaticism in all directions, greed, and stupidity, among other things. BUT...we still enjoy more freedom (for the most part) than any other nation on Earth, despite the efforts of many to erode and limit those freedoms. And it frustrates me to no end, when I see protestors...*most* of whom (but certainly not all) appear to have never served their country in any useful manner...gleefully ignite, stomp on, and generally disrespect our flag. The irony of the sacrifices made by those who served that flag, which preserves their right to assemble and protest...is lost on them.

So, after saying all of this...one might expect that I believe that flag burning (other than in the official, formal, *respectful* ceremony which others have mentioned) should be illegal. But that is not the case. As I've just mentioned above...sacrifices have been made to *preserve* our freedoms. The right to Free Speech, to assemble, and to protest...is sacrosanct. While I *personally* believe that flag-burning is a crude, unintelligent, and ill-advised attempt to make some sort of point...I do believe that it is protected speech. The fact that it likely only serves to infuriate and alienate many people...who might otherwise be open to their argument...is beside the point.

I only wish that many colleges and other "institutes of higher education" would give the same consideration to Free Speech. As of late, I hear of many who are banning speakers who have anything to say which does not adhere to the school's dogma. This flies in the face of Free Speech.

Sorry. My attempt at succinctness seems to have failed.

 

Well said that man !!!

 

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“Nationalism of one kind or another was the cause of most of the genocide of the twentieth century. Flags are bits of colored cloth that governments use first to shrink-wrap people's minds and then as ceremonial shrouds to bury the dead.”
Arundhati Roy

 

Very well put! Thanks, man, and thank you and your father’s service to our country!

 

AGAINST.

 

its a way of venting against the idea of a government. sometimes there are reasons to.

but if people were considerate enough of each other, they wouldn't need the governments they were venting against to begin with.

i think its a distraction to focus on the act itself, instead of the context for its motivation.

that doesn't mean i give any support to knuckle draggers who want to destroy governments just to put themselves in place of them. which i don't.

a flag would probably make a better blanket then a source of fuel.

i don't think governments should be taken as gods for their own sake, but rather, taken into logical reasoned consideration, for the sakes of each other.

 

“If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the Government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable.”
Justice William Brennan, citing Texas v. Johnson.

 

I do not think it is the interest of peace and reason to show disrespect and intolerance to any group of people.

 

Nationalism is second only to religion in terms of fueling genocide.

 

The only caveat is groups that directly promote violence....then self preservation becomes the issue. It’s offensive to condemn Muslims or any other group that is not promoting violence while accepting oath keepers, KKK, and edgy Republicans.

 

Burning (or otherwise desecrating) "Old Glory", IMHO is a hard slap in the face to every veteran who fought, bled, and also died for our country.

It is impossible to put these brave individuals sacrifices into mere words; far too many lived a nightmare, but still fought bravely and with dignity.

My late uncle (passed in 2015) flew a B-24 during WW2 and was shot down over Occupied France.

The pilot and co-pilot were both killed; my uncle, and another crewman, managed to crash-land the plane and avoid Nazi capture.

My uncle and two or three others were all that survived.

My uncle spent several months in a British rehab hospital for a number of months before he was able to come home.

He became a decorated war hero and was the greatest hero in our family; none of us could ever get him to talk about his Air Force days, although he liked reading books on the B-24.

Few WW2 and Korean War vets survive today; even the all-too-often ignored 'Nam vets are beginning to fade out.

To desecrate the very flag that these brave men fought for, I feel, is a form of blatant blasphemy.

If one does not have pride in our flag, so be it, but, DO NOT stoop so low that you show gross disrespect to a beautiful flag that means so much to so many............

 

"If there is a bedrock principle underlying the First Amendment, it is that the Government may not prohibit the expression of an idea simply because society finds the idea itself offensive or disagreeable."
Justice William Brennan
Texas v. Johnson