What Yuga are we in?

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But God's will may be that one should not feel like a victim.

It may also be that we are meant to do what we can to improve conditions here.

 

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I disagree totally that people are worse off now than in the past.

I could give many examples, but lets just cite medical advances. What would have been a fatal disease in the past can now be easily cured.
Also, in the field of religion etc. the very fact that you as a non Indian are aware at all of even the existence of Bhakti yoga is a function of human progress. Previously, it would have been christianity or nothing, and you would probably think of followers of other religions as heathens. This progress has all been facilitated by human effort - and really Prabhupada etc. are keen enough to take advantage of all this, even whilst putting it all down.

I have met many HK devotees over the years, and ex-devotees. Not a single one strikes me as having any real realization.
Prabhupada made a total mess of things where his sucessors are concerned. He selected a group of criminally minded cheaters who engaged in many nefarious activities. Yet these were supposedly the top devotees. Now, I believe, so-called 'spiritual masters' are elected by a committee.
Thus, Prabhupada made mistakes in one area - and I would say also in others. Mainly that his views are exceedingly narrow.

And how do you know who God is inspiring to improve things?

Probably from a book. But that isn't realization. It's just what you've read.

 

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First of all, phil, welcome back. You're like a breath of fresh air in this forum, you always ground me when Im about to take off on a stream of unwanted bickering.

The fact is, we don't live in harmony with nature. The environment is a shambles. Yes, health care is better. But incidents of heart disease are higher, cancer rates are higher, diabetes is higher. People don't live as healthily, although medical science keeps them alive, their quality of life is not very great.

Also keep in mind that mere physical comfort or wealth is not enough for happiness, it is an inner adjustment and unfortunately people are very much further removed from that adjustment. Why do you think every other person needs psychiatric counselling? Why are so many people using anti depressant drugs?

Yes, it is a dark age. I am not offering anyone an easy victim esacpe there. That is no excuse to feel sorry for yourself. I am lucky to be born in times like this because it constantly increases my drive to transcend the ugly limitations of this world, to rise beyond and be free of it. If I lived in better times I may have been lax and lacked the initiative to do so.

In the past there were many great saints in Europe in the christian structure, flawed as it may have been. There were many who defied the church establishment also, but were accepted as great saints and jnanis. Think of St. Francis of Assisi for example. He was a true man of realisation, great spiritual master. There were many like that. Where are they now?

 

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Why do you believe or think the discussions in threads "seem to end in bickering."?

Could it be because we have ideas on how one should conduct their way of living, their way of thinking, their speech, mannerisms, the way we conduct ours (in this case, yours)?

We all have our perceptions on the way we consciously perceive reality. We all interact with our surroundings by clinging to moments that no longer exist, and by creating expectations for how we think things should happen according to our clinging to past moments ... so we all have created within our own minds our perceptions of how reality "should" look, how it "should" sound, how it "should" taste, how it "should" feel, how it "should" smell, and how one "should" think.

That perception is our own perception, and so we try to explain to people this is how we perceive reality. They tell you how they perceive reality, and you refute the way they perceive it by "telling" them "this" is how they should perceive it because I perceive it this way, or "that" is how you should perceive it because I perceive it that way.

So what happens? Bickering and arguing. And over what?

We expect people to behave the way we do. We expect people to think the way we do. We expect people to perceive the way we do. We expect people to believe the way we do.

Expectations are the beginning of disappointments. Sustained expectations lead to dissapointments. Sustained disappointments lead to impatience. Sustained impatience leads to anger. Sustained anger leads to hate. Sustained hate leads to violence, disputes, killing, extinction...

Want to stop the bickering?

Stop trying to force your views and opinions on others as if they should be viewing them the way you do or forming the same opinions as you. If you want to believe in God, and someone does not, then they have their own rights in their own views and perceptions on reality as you do. Just because their views and perceptions are not yours, does not make them any more wrong than yours are to them.

How do you force your opinions on someone? By "telling" them their views and beliefs are wrong and refuting with them the same, all based on your views and beliefs.

You create the bickering, yet you complain about the bickering. The creator complains about its creation ... seems odd !!!

Only you can prevent the bickering.

With loving-kindness and compassion,

Darrell

 

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To criticise is to find fault with ... to express one's views as to the merit or demerit of something.

Where does the fault lie?

Is the fault with the other person's logic?

By who's judgement is the other person the one at fault?

What you were stating was your own view and belief. Which may or may not be shared with other's views and beliefs. It does not mean your views and opinions are wrong for you. And it also does not mean that others views and opinions are wrong for them. Nor does it mean that the views and beliefs of those whom you share the same belives and views are wrong for them (and you).

Just that they are yours, and those who share them with you. Not others who do not. When one says he does not believe that it is God's will or plan for this or that, and and someone else says it is, this is not criticism, but an expression of ones views as being correct and the others as not being correct.

I for one do not believe in a God or gods. I do, however, believe in various realms of existence where beings living within these realms exhibit properties that may or may not appear as god-like due to our perceptions and comprehensions on our on level or realm of existence.

You have every right to post your opinions, but when you start making appear as if your opinions, and those of others who share the same opinion are the correct one and the only one, then you step beyond the realm of others beliefs and perceptions and in doing so you open the door for "bickering." You in essence, create the bickering.

Darrell

 

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... Darrell ...

Your funny ...

Darrell

 

anyhow all the best Darrell

i have deleted all previous posts because I have decended into bickering which wasnt my aim.

 

Hmmm...

After watching the various transitions the past few posts have been in, I only have one thing to say ... Slow Down !!!

Your thought processes through the metamorphisis of your previous posts are astounding ... makes me have faith in the words of Buddha when he said there is nothing more in all of existance that changes as much as the mind.

Your a good person, Philuk. Nothing I've said previously has said anything to the contrary. Matter-of-fact, it applies to everyone reading it (them).

And the sign said: Evolution in progress ... please proceed with caution !

Darrell

 

I'm dyslexic darrell so i always have to edit posts lots of times for simple mistakes and basically just finding it hard to write what i mean to say.

I only posted because I know Bhaskar. I shouldnt have posted about a topic I have little knowledge of and haven't considered fully.

I dont post mainly because when i truely identify why I've posted it's because of egotistic purposes and I usually always delete them these days. This is why I dont post and not because of bickering like I stated before.

Silence is golden.

 

Guilty as charged ... [me]

Guilty as charged ... [me]

Guilty, again, as charged ... [again, me ... well except for the deleting part]

Amen !!!

 

They are with God and
Perhaps they are still with us!
But none of them believed in a dark age - and yet they were still greatly devoted to God.

As it seems was the case with Sri Yukteswar.

 

Also Bhaskar, although the organization and heirarchy of the medieval church was as you say, deeply flawed, arguably the belief system and philosophy was comprable to anything in Indian devotional philosophy. Certainly this is so in terms of the completeness, the all-embracing nature of the thing.

In terms of western philosophy, speaking of the medieval scholastic world-view, Bertrand Russell (no freind of Christianity) wrote that "nothing nearly so neat has emerged since".
I only want to make this point because many people think that medieval europe was all barbarism and bloodshed and persecutions. This is to ignore the deep devotionalism of the period, and the real achievements of great Christian philosophers, mystics and artists. Beneath the rough surface of medieveal euope was a rich and highly spiritual/mystical culture.

 

Is that like the Projects that spit out talent like Snoop, Dr.Dre, M&M, Fiddy, etc.? Beneath the rough surface of the inner city there is a rich and vibrant culture, and maybe you can score some crack.

 

Nothing like it at all.