What Will You Do When The System Collapses?

i havent seen anyone even mention a gun in this thread...

more stereotyping?

 

You:


"personally,when talking about the collapse of the society we live in,i would say guns an the ability to use them properly without hesitation should be number 1 on peoples list...when you have conviction and a plan, you wont run out,at least till you lose the game. every gun battle you survive you should scavenge what you can from your attackers."

Others:

"As un hippie as it may sound....this is the reason I stand behind my belief in possessing fire arms ...call it paranoia or whatever...but I will protect what is mine and those associated with me"

"Buy some guns. Keep a fair amount of cash. Stockpile a bit of gas / water / food / ammo, & be prepared to fight till the death"

"I read ppl buyin guns in the forum.. I'd say just to be prepared to work hand in hand and ride hard.
Safety is the word they have been using stretagically...people buying guns is evident enough tht they have suceeded."

"Though I never thought about getting a gun......but now I am pondering the possibility...pondering owning a gun isn't a terrible thing to do, look what happened after Katrina. There were people armed and shooting while taking what they could get and the police seemed unable to do anything about it. Knowledge is a good thing but so is honest thinking about the worst case scenario."




I might as well stop there.

That was upto page 6.

 

I agree. Stock up on ammo, too. Might as well decrease this massive population a little bit. Hey, Just doin' my part!

 

Go join up : http://www.1800goguard.com/

 

haha

NO

 

How about joining Blackwater, instead?

 

I'm a minute man, not some uniformed clone.

*TOSSES MOLOTOV*

 

I didn't think you liked propaganda:

 

GAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THERE'S NO ESCAPE!

*Sets strip mall on fire*

 

Have hope stalk, mabey some GME will accidentally cross the human genome with that of the lemming. It sure seems as if it worked with sheep already.

 

If you're a hillbilly, you must be into guns, right?

You can shoot at each other all you want, I'll be the one hiding out in the woods burning a fatty.

I've been doing a lot of research on ways to become self sufficient and get off the grid. It's discouraging to think that a full blown system with solar and wind will run me somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 to 30 grand, but I figure if I approach it a little at a time, I'll eventually get there. When you think about it, it sure beats investing in the stock market. I'm looking forward to retirement with my house paid off, and no utility bills.

The first step is to make what you've got as efficient as possible. The more energy you use, the more energy generating equipment you need, and that adds to the cost of the system. I've replaced all my bulbs with the low wattage ones, and I'm adding insulation and caulking the windows and doors. Energy star appliances are expensive, but they pay for themselves in the long run.

Someone mentioned a cistern for water. I find that plastic garbage cans at the bottom of the down spouts on my gutters serve that function well. You don't wanna drink it or cook with it, but you can use it for cleaning or watering your plants.

I've looked at solar and wind mill kits that provide everything, including the batteries, transfer switch, and inverter, but they seem expensive for what they are. I figure I can get the components and design my own for a lot cheaper.

I must say as pissed off as I am at the bush administration for squandering our resources (and our retirement funds) over the last eight years, the bright side is it forces us to think more about self sufficiency as being a main stream reality, instead of some fringe technology. I just hope it catches on, so if more folks buy into it economies of scale will kick in and it'll cost us less to make the conversion.

 

I think everyone would love to have a $40,000-$120,000 solar, wind, hydro energy generating home system, but I really don’t think it is a reality for every person.

I think most of us average income folks need to try to change the systems for the masses that we are currently living off of. I know that sounds far fetched but here in Colorado it has come a long way and we are making a lot of progress in that area.

I plain on staying in my community and trying to make things better even the people in the woods need the system. You can spend 20 hours making a pair underwear out of a dead animal of you can spend 1 hour of work in the larger system and buy a pack of underwear. Or you can spend all summer growing a pile of grain with a donkey and milling it with stones or you can trade 20 hours of work in a community for the same amount of flour.

To try to live by your self and generate everything you will work your ass off 50-60 hours a week to live a primitive person.

Most people that claim to be “self sufficient” are only living off of money they invested in the system.. land, mason jars, shovels, rotor tillers, pipes, pots and pans.

There is not escape only hiding, it is better to try to change it for the better IMO.

 

i stand corrected on the guns. this thread was so old when it was revived i forgot what was at the beginning..

anyway,i found this list on another board and thought i would share.its very detailed and informative.(note the sections on pandemic outbreaks and nuclear attacks)

the guy who posted it is a government employee in the fairfax virginia public works department.his current assignment is Emergency Support Function 3(Damage Assessment and Engineering) as Operations Support for debris management for firegrounds, storm cleanups, evictions, foreclosures, etc. When not detailed to emergency management he is responsible for code enforcement, performance measurement and plans development for our solid waste management program.
anyway he says ,
This is what we teach our employees:

Disaster V. Catastrophe
Disasters are short term - “Make do for 3-4 days until help arrives…”
Catastrophic events are long term
Katrina-scale hurricane, tsunami, earthquake
Major terror attack, nuclear detonation, dirty bomb
No help is coming soon, “you are on your own”

Why?
Complete loss of civil infrastructure
Minimal or no police, fire or EMS response
No electricity, municipal water, communications
Transport of fuel / food is severely impaired
Public safety agencies will be overwhelmed
Recovery is long term (over 30 days)

[ PREPAREDNESS
Have an evacuation kit ready at all times
Don't presume that a disaster will be short-term
Pack essentials first, then consider comfort items
In real emergences, forget last-minute purchases
Plan for more supplies than you “think” you may need
Inspect / renew your supplies each spring and fall
Provide entertainment for young children.

PROBLEM SOLVING Size Up Your Situation
Determine Objectives (stay or evacuate?)
Identify Resources (either stored supplies or salvaged materials from your surroundings)
Evaluate Options (use the safest way)
Plan (use your head)
Act...Improvise and overcome

SHELTER Protection from the elements
Wind and rain resistant
Insulation from cold

“Stay or Evacuate” Decision
If evacuation is not mandatory, the same safety rules
for entering a structure apply to using your home as shelter

EVACUATE OR STAY?
Conclusion from FEMA Urban-Rural Evacuation State Planners Workshop

Given:
● Population of the DC Metro area
● Propensity to self-evacuate, overwhelmingly by automobile
● Wide distribution of evacuation destinations,
● Perceived vulnerability to terror attack, and anticipation of multiple attacks

Result:
● A large-scale, chaotic mass self-evacuation should be anticipated.

DO NOT OCCUPY IF:
There is structural damage
(6 sides of the “box” are not plumb)
Utilities cannot be controlled
Structure was damaged in a fire
DO NOT occupy a floor that has been flooded,
micotoxins from molds are respiratory hazard!

EVACUATION Feasible only if all personnel can evacuate before fallout contamination arrives and;
Essential functions for Continuity of Operations are transferred to an alternate facility
Affected area would have to be small and warning time adequate to execute the evacuation
Detonation effects (blast/thermal/EMP) will likely impede evacuation
Evacuees may be exposed and/or contaminated.

Evacuate or Stay? – Do you have a plan?
Where will you go?
Is it safe to travel?
Can you REALLY get there?
Do you have enough resources to make it work?
Warn friends not to invite others to come and evacuate with them
They’ll overwhelm your limited resources!
Never allow family members to be separated
Even if it means waiting for later rescue and/or evacuation

SHELTER IN PLACE
Critical facilities that cannot evacuate (hospitals, EOCs) must continue to operate
Necessary if fallout/contamination would arrive before evacuation can be completed
Fallout Shelters will be needed to protect against high level radiation/detonation
Shelter-in-place (not necessarily Fallout Shelter) near RDD/very low level
Shelter stay may range from a few days to 2 weeks.
Authorities outside affected area can organize rescue/evacuation effort
Shelter occupants may be exposed and/or contaminated.

SHELTER IN PLACE - Continued
Necessary if operations can not be transferred or if staff, patients or clients cannot evacuate
Necessary if needed to support operations of other response agencies
Must have Radiological Monitoring & Exposure Control capabilities
Critical Facilities may be used to shelter families of the staff
Critical Facilities will not be used to shelter the general public.

DECONTAMINATION
After a flood or attack start immediately, even if you don’t know what the agent is. Sandia decontamination foam (US Patent 6,566,574 B1) sold
as Scott's Liquid Gold Mold Control 500 in hardware stores.

Effective against most chemical and biological agents, including nerve, blister, anthrax, SARS, Norwalk, avian and common flu.

Widely used for hospital /hotel sanitization mold remediation in commercial buildings, cleaning / neutralizing agricultural sprayers.

Moderate cost, about $30 at Home Depot to treat 500sf.

Sandia decon formulation, best known as an anthrax killer, takes on household mold - April 26, 2007

NUCLEAR ATTACK ISSUES:
Structural damage to shelter from nearby detonation
Fire in the shelter
Dangerously high radiation levels
Severely high temperatures and humidity
Oxygen and Carbon Dioxide imbalance in the shelter
Depletion of essential supplies
Disease and injury
Unrest, anxiety, crime or defiance of order or authority

Time - Fallout radiation intensity decays rapidly;
90% in just the first 7 hours. The less time you
spend in a radiation field, the less dose received.

Distance - The farther you are from a source,
the less dose you receive.

Shielding - Denser (heavier, massive) materials
absorb more radiation. Greater thickness of any
given material absorbs more radiation.

Protection Factors & Mass of Materials
*PF = “Protection Factor” refers to the ratio between the radiation dose rate of the OUTSIDE to that INSIDE the shelter, for instance a PF = 10 means that the inside dose rate is 1/10th the outside rate.

How Much Protection?

PF* Lead Steel Concrete Earth Water Wood
2 .3"" .7" 2.0" 3.3" 5" 9"
4 .5" 1.5" 5.0" 7.0" 10" 15"
8 1.0" 2.0" 6.5" 10.0" 15" 27"
16 1.2" 3.0" 9.0" 14.0" 20" 3 ft
32 1.5" 4.0" 12.0" 15.0" 2 ft 4 ft
64 2.0" 4.2" 13.2" 19.8" 2.5ft 4.5 ft
128 2.1" 5.0" 15.0" 2 ft 3 ft 5 ft
1000 3.0" 7.0" 22.0" 33.0" 4 ft -
2000 3.3" 7.7" 2 ft 3 ft 4.5 ft -

Outside radiation, divided by the Protection Factor, is reduced in proportion. For example, if the outside radiation rate is 1,000 R/hr, a person shielded by 3 ft. of earth would receive a dose rate of .5 R/hr. but a person shielded by 1 ft of earth would receive about 10 R/hr.

Sheltering at Home During an Emergency

For using a building without working utilities as shelter

Exhaust – candles, camp stoves, lanterns, generators,
heaters, charcoal grills, all generate carbon monoxide
and must not be used indoors!
Open flame – above ignition sources
must never be left unattended!
Fuel – most of the above require flammable fuels
to operate, which must be stored outdoors.
Use Fire Marshal approved fuel containers

Improvised Emergency Shelters
As in all real estate, most important is location:
Avoid low spots with poor drainage
Seek a gently sloped area so that surface water drains away
Sheltered from prevailing winds
Away from bodies of water (attracts insects and animals)
Insulated from direct contact with ground, rock,
or concrete, which conducts away body heat.

Avoid as shelter:
Areas around downed utility lines
In or near culverts
Within the “collapse zone” of a damaged building
(maintain 2:1 ratio of distance away to building height)

Improvised Shelters:
Sheds
Tents
Tarps
Vehicles

Don’t disable a good car!
Remove car batteries to power communications and
shelter lighting only from cars that do not start
If a car starts reserve it for emergency evacuation, or
Use it as a “battery charger”
Salvage lighting, remove dome lights, tail lights,
trunk lights, etc. & with at least 36” of wires.
Position batteries in shelter; attach wires & lights
As batteries discharge, replace with new batteries
or recharge batteries.

Emergency Shelter Materials:
Salvage building materials from debris or
from damaged structures only when it can be done safely
TYVEK building wrap
Plastic sheeting
Roofing paper and shingles
Siding, plywood
Chain link fence
Lumber
Carpeting
Wire, rope, and fasteners

Build Your Shelter In Layers
Structural framing: lumber, plywood, fencing, metal
Fasteners: reinforce structural connections with nails, wire or rope ties, wooden spikes
Water and wind proofing: TYVEK, plastic sheeting, tarp, shingles, roofing paper
Insulation: drywall, leaves, tree branches, carpeting, (may also be used as ballast to hold water/wind proofing layer in place)

 

but once that investment is made one can brake free of the system. or virtually break free,there will always be taxes to be paid. that is the ultimate reward.i would much rather put in 80 hours doing what i love over 20 hours of doing what i must...

ive ALWAYS told people you must be part of the system before you can drop out of it and you can never be totally free of it. those are simple facts.

 

Don't get me wrong HH, I was just poking fun at stereotypes, not trying to bust your balls.

Agreed, it really comes down to tradeoffs and compromises when you think about it. You can cut off all ties with "civilization" (if you call it that), go off in the woods and live the primitive life (in which case have a good trip, I guess we won't be reading your posts on the internet anymore), or you can stick around and make the best of what our culture has left us with, while leaving as small a foot print as possible, learning and encouraging and educating others to do the same, as HH has done here. That seems like the most constructive approach in the long run...

 

Amen to that, why endure misery to make the rich richer when the alternative of working for oneself, being a good stewart of the land beneath his feet so that it will provide for Him and his? Makes no sense.

The old saying goes, Do what you love and you wil never work a day in your life, te contrary also hold's true there. I mean if you truly feel the need to participate in a larger community thats fine, most folks on the path of self sustinance have learned a good deal on the art of Herbalism and homeopathy which is a fine barter in a time when a months supply of prescription poisons many depend on for survival are going to cost them more than the wheelbarrel of money you've saved thruout your life.

And what about food? Do you plan on eating squirrels, the bodies of the less fortunate? Or when tshtf do you imagine that the factory farms which pump their Cow's with growth hormones and antibiotics to maximize production rates and profits will suddenly turn to a more philanthropic approach to life? In Denver, better make darn good friends with the dude who runs that Horse & Carrage company on the Mall, mabey you can work for him and help transport goods like the Amish do now, cuz' you sure aint' gonna find any gas.
I mean, good luck and "God" bless etc. with the plan, wish you the best.

 

when gas becomes too expensive...well i dont have a car anyway. but then public transportation would be limited too. so then i guess i'd hoof it.

 

I think HBH is a 1 in 10,000 person who actually worked for decades and made the dream come true.

Most people aren’t going to invest that kind of work into it and if they do they are going to be feeding the system for a couple of decades to do so you mind as well try to make it better and change it as you are burning the gas, paying the taxes and making a living off of it.

There are they lucky few who inherit money and can just go out and buy land and invest in everything. Wouldn’t it be nice..

Most people are still going to have to use the system no matter how much awesome tools and supplies you collect. When your saw breaks, your cooking pot wears out, your animals get diseases die or need meds. You will have to go back and get things from the system sometime.

I think one change in the system that will help the homestead life style is if people start promoting the “buy local’ more, it will make markets for a lot of small farms and local produced stuff.

 

barter.. it works...

 

Yeah barter would work if more people were into the lifestyle like 100 years ago you could get what ever you needed from an average rural community.

I do kind of admire Mormons they do have a system that could take over and be fairly sustainable if the worldwide system fails. too bad they are a brain washing cult.