What makes Obama a "Socialist"?

"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under
the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist
program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without
knowing how it happened." ~> Norman Thomas, 1948

Also, here's a link and quote from another forum that seems apropos:

http://www.sagehistory.net/progressive/SocialistPlat1912.htm

1912? Only took 100 years...

 

Well, Marx was in the employ of the Rothschilds, who, through Marx, worked to promote socialism into existence as the dialectical antithesis to capitalism. Marx didn't even come up with his own theories, most of which were taken from people like Bakunin and Proudhon, who themselves barrowed from Adam Weishaupt.

Marx was incredibly wealthy, as were other socialst/communists of later, like Trotsky and Lenin. It's because they were all working for the bankers their followers believed them to be railing against.

Yes, several of Marx's children died because of neglect and starvation. However, looking at pictures of Marx, it didn't look like he was going without food.

From Myron Fagan's 1967 speech:

 

That's not what Obama's doing, and it's not at all what's going on in the US now.
But that 1912 Socialist platform is exactly what we need. I assume you were trying to make the point that it's a problem, but those are actually things I wish Obama would do.

 

Where's the competition with Cuban businesses?

 

russia, China, Canada, Venezuela, the USA, etc.

 

If Cuba was capitalist, the competition with Cuban businesses would be large multinational corporations. Cuban businesses couldn't compete, and inevitably, the corporations would exploit Cuban workers. Therefore, Cuba is much better off with publicly owned businesses.

 

Why? You already live in a socialist country, why do WE need what you want?

And, hey! i do not mean that snotty, i really DO wonder!

How will turning the US into a Socialist Republic help, or benefit, you personally, or Canada, or the world?

 

Canada is far from socialist...and unfortunately, it will never move in that direction as long as Stephen Harper is PM. Canada was actually quite hesitant to use "corporate socialist" policies (such as the bailout) that even Bush supported.

But still, Canada doesn't have a lot of the terrible social problems that you have in the US...and that's a direct consequence of some fairly basic public social programs.
I'd like socialism in the US because I'm a compassionate human being who doesn't like it when society neglects and exploits its people while corporations benefit.

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Prove to me the Canada is a Socialist country. This I have to see.

 

Prove it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_and_social_democracy_in_Canada

http://www.namyth.com/SocialismWORKS!/index.php?sw=Canada

 

First of all, I wouldn't ever consider Wikipedia to be a verifiable enough source to quote in an argument.
Regardless, the fact that Canada has a major left-wing party does not mean Canada is a socialist country. The NDP is not even that far left of centre anymore, and it is not attempting to get rid of capitalism or democracy. The federal NDP has fairly limited influence considering that it has never been the official opposition, let alone formed the government. Also, pretty much every democracy has a left-wing party, and many are more socialist than the NDP. The other parties mentioned on the Wikipedia page no longer exist, or don't even have any seats.

The second link is a mix of pure propaganda and selective facts, so I'm not even going to take it seriously enough to debate. Aside from the disinformation, the photo at the top is trying to compare "socialism" in Canada with Nazism...I don't see any comparison whatsoever.

 

To a Republican , a "socialist" is simply anyone who believes in the pooling/sharing of risks or resources for any purpose whatsoever. If three buddies decide they want to build a deer blind, and they split the cost, to them that's socialism, unless one of the three parties (the entrepreneur) cleverly fucks the other two (labor) out of a little bit of their money/labor and makes a profit.

On this very forum, I've seen people accuse this nation's most greedy and wealthy capitalist entrepreneurs of "socialism," so the word has become somewhat deprecated, IMO.

 

*taps foot*

I'm waiting.

 

Those who call the President a socialist do so because they want to turn the American electorate against him. For these people "socialist" is a term of opprobrium. What they forget is that the Cold War is over, and the Soviet Union no longer exists. Moreover, Communist China is out performing us economically. The Communist Chinese do not yet have a higher standard of living than we do, but they produce better goods at lower prices, and their government is operating in the black. What is more, it is buying up much of the U.S. national debt.

In many respects, countries in Western Europe do have a higher standard of living than Americans. They are healthier and more affluent than any time in their history, and they are generally healthier than Americans.

When Americans think of socialism they are increasingly likely to think of Scandinavia rather than Cuba. Unless one is a right wing ideologue, it is difficult to portray Scandinavia as a horrible example of socialism in practice. Yelling "Obama is a socialist!" "Obama is a socialist," is no more likely to reduce the President's high poll numbers than yelling, "Bill Ayers is his friend!" "Bill Ayers is his friend!" did during the presidential campaign.

 

President Obama is not a socialist, but many Americans who call themselves "conservative" are not conservatives either. They are reactionaries who want to turn the calendar back to the 1950's, the 1920's, or even the nineteenth century. Anyone who wants to repeal the income tax, the estate tax, Social Security, and the other egalitarian reforms of the twentieth century is a reactionary.

 

You realize that the income tax amendment wasnt even ratified by a sufficient number of states, right?




I think that we should follow our constitution first, personally.

 

"The Sixteenth Amendment (Amendment XVI) to the United States Constitution was ratified on February 3, 1913...

"Ratification (by the requisite thirty-six states) was completed on February 3, 1913 with the ratification by New Mexico. The amendment was subsequently ratified by the following states, bringing the total number of ratifying states to forty-two of the forty-eight then existing:


37. Delaware (February 3, 1913)38. Wyoming (February 3, 1913)39. New Jersey (February 4, 1913)40. Vermont (February 19, 1913)41. Massachusetts (March 4, 1913)42. New Hampshire (March 7, 1913),http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

 

"These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.
Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable...


"2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax."

http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html

 

What makes Obama a socialist? Well lets see, the obvious fact that he is trying to take complete control of America's government, military, society, and people. He is striving to have guns banned, which in itself may not be seen as a bad thing but when coupled with the other measures he's trying to get done is very interesting. He is attempting to have the police departments completly federalized, thus giving him complete control over the police, he is strengthening military forces in the U.S., he is having "camps" installed all over the country, camps that in any other society would be seen as a form of concentration camp. And he wants to see a new draft initiated. To me this screams socialism...

 

It isn't that the 16th amendment wasn't ratified. It just was not properly ratified with a 2/3 majority. They passed it through during the Christmas break when most of Congress was at home with their families. But that's only a small fraction of it. I could go into much greater detail, but I'd rather not tonight.