What Kind Of God Would Judge Me For Not Being Christian?

Why do you believe this? Why can't it be you who is wrong?

 

I think some people mistake their feeling of certainty as an actual indication of veracity.

 

Just a kind of aside here Okie - I think you are pretty well read in these kinds of areas, and I was wondering if you ever read anything by British indepentent scholar Margaret Barker? She seems to suggest in places (her book 'Temple Mysticism' for instance) an early influence from the first Temple period of ancient Israel to the Greeks, in particular to Pythagoras, and thence on to Plato.
For example, she see's Philo of Alexandria, who is usually thought of as as a Platonizing Jew, deriving some of what scholars have taken for Platonic influences from Jewish sources. I had always assumed that what looks like a Platonic influence in the Gnostics was just that - but this is a notoriously confused area where we have insufficient evidence to go on. It does seem plausible that some gnostic origins were almost entirely Jewish. Late antiquity though was a melting pot of religious beliefs and teachings, and no doubt there was an influence from Plotinus &Co.
I find Margaret Barker quite interesting and there may perhaps be something in what she says. Certainly I have found her work useful in looking in new ways at both orthodox kinds of Christianity as well as some of the gnostic teachings. However, I do also feel that there's a lot of guesswork and speculation involved. Former Archbishop of Canterbury (sorry to mention English bishops again in this thread) Rowan Williams awarded her an honorary doctorate for her work. (Williams is actually Welsh anyway).

 

Sometimes, I wonder if it’s the followers who create the judgement and not God. I have identified as an atheist and have come back to belief, but I don’t follow a religion and my feeling is that God loves us and isn’t this score keeping ogre that religions make him out to be. Just how I see God.

 

I'm not familiar with her work. I'd have to look into it. But some scholars of the Dead Sea Scrolls think that some of the ideas in the Gospel of John, which used to be attributed to Hellenistic thinking, might have been Essene.

 

I find a lot of this stuff very interesting. I've always had a kind of underlying fascination with the early Christians and associated groups in late antiquity. I'd say that in general, modern scholarship and research has geatly expanded our knowledge of the period - but can often raise as many questions as it answers.
I think the idea of an Essene influence on John would be in line with Barker's general hypothesis. Key concepts in John such as the 'word' or logos could conceivably have a Jewish past.
I do see some problems with such hypotheses, but it's certainly worth thinking about.

 

And the Essenes seem to have been heavily influenced by the Zoroastrian Persians and the Babylonian captivity. I also remember the theory of Chaldean influence on the Pythagorians.

 

@Okiefreak

Let me ask you something. You're a Christian, yes?

You don't believe in heaven? The Beatific Vision? Why not be a secular humanist and find fellowship in other ways?

 

Surprised you're only just now askin' him this. He's had his beliefs on display for years now

 

I'm a little slow on the draw.

 

Maybe he believes in Jesus’ teachings but not in heaven? I’m just guessing.

 

I just can't see Okie as a Jesus as philosopher and not Son of God. He may not remember this but years ago we had a discussion about it (I was still quite Catholic) and I didn't get that impression.

Then again, I didn't ask. Maybe you're right. He'll clarify I'm sure.

 

Good question. Were you going by McFuddy then? You're right. I believe in Jesus' teachings but not in a literal afterlife-- which doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't one. My basic understanding of scripture is historical-metaphorical, influenced by the theologian Marcus Borg. I think of my consciousness as something which is obviously qualitatively different from matter, but dependent on the functioning of a material brain, which I expect to turn to mush when I die. I think of heaven as an eternal state rather than something "everlasting" that exists in time. Saying 113 in the non-canonical gospel of Thomas expresses it nicely: "The kingdom of the Father is spread out everywhere upon the earth, and people do not see it." In other words, I think of heaven as less a place that I'll go to when I die, than a condition that I'm presently experiencing to a certain extent and hope experience more right here on earth. Likewise, I think of hell as a bad attitude--a condition in which a person's bad faith in refusing to accept responsibility for his/her actions is so deeply entrenched that it becomes impossible to break through his defenses. Like C.S. Lewis, I think the doors of hell are locked from the inside. Dante agrees in Inferno, depicting Satan himself as trapped in a block of ice in the middle of hell. The ice is generated by the frantic flapping of his huge wings trying to get away from God. If he'd stop flapping, the ice would melt and he'd be free, but he's too far gone for that.

I'm a student of world religions, and I think all of them have something to contribute to our understanding of God, morality and the meaning of life. But I'm a Christian because I'm particularly drawn to the teachings and example of Jesus, especially for His concern for the downtrodden and rejects of society. I accept love for God and neighbor as myself as the prime directive of my existence, and draw my sense of meaning in life from religious studies. So I regard myself as a progressive Christian humanist, and seek fellowship in a variety of venues using the Methodist Church as home base but including Orthodox, Catholic,Episcopalian, Disciples of Christ and freethinkers. I got onto this quest during a moment of clarity (or psychotic break) back in '95, when a reading in Genesis took on new meaning and triggered a review of the world religions. It started with the passage in Genesis1:27 "So God created man in his own image..."That passage took on a new meaning for me. If humans are made in the image (presumably spiritual) of God, when we're in the presence of another human, we're in the presence of God. This made going to WalMart a whole new spiritual experience for me. I've been a Christian since then, but also a perennialist, who believes that all religions contain the distilled wisdom (and folly) of humanity. I'd include secular humanism in that category. But what I've said may also make you aware that I'm far too religious to fit the mold of your average secular humanist. Hope that answers you questions.

 

It does, thank you.