what is wrong with society & why did i post this in the LSD section?

if everyone creates their own reality, then why are we bitching about society? it shouldn't matter then, right? cuz we all have our own reality? that's just not true.

 

then why do children learn in school? if they didn’t want to learn they wouldn’t learn at all even if they were put in school.

the bad little children that you refer to are the kinds of kids who don’t learn in school as it is. this has nothing to do with some strange idea that children do not want to learn but has everything to do with bad parenting.

a healthy child will always be eager to learn new things. that is what life is about and children usually discover this on their own.

of course when we have bad parenting we also have bad children. children need good parents who love them.

kids are not bad by nature. people are not bad by nature. we are a product of our surroundings and some people are not fortunate enough to have good parents. i am sure there will always be places that children can go to get help. for the kids who don’t want to learn and grow into a productive human being - well i am sure that no school would have been able to change their mind either. some people just wind up bad and there is nothing anyone can do sometimes.

neodude1212... i wonder why you think this way. this is a thread about what is wrong with society. that should in no way be construed to mean that we hate society or that we are not thankful for what we have. it is very natural for people to want a better life. there is something very wrong with people who say that you should just accept things for how they are because they could be worse. that kind of mentality will get us no where.

 

The entire point of this thread was how to make reality better for others, both 3xi and myself actually opened our argument by stating that we could go off and live out in the middle of no where but that it would be selfish in each of our realities. Read more carefully please; this was blatantly stated before anything else that was mentioned by both me and 3xi.

 

That isn't a theory, it can be proven with simple logic. What you are perceiving is your reality simply because you think the way you do. For you to think that everyone else sees things the way you do is part of your reality, but some people might feel pain and think that it is joy because they enjoy it. Someone might see red as you see blue and vise versa. For all you know your mind is fabricating all reality and you are the only one who perceives any of it. For an African tribesman, reality might be happily conquering nature and sharing love with the tribe, while your reality likely consists of bitching at people who don't think like you on a computer and jacking off to the latest American Idol.

 

What needs to be rememberd at all times, is that reality is purely subjective. Not only because it is not eternal, and not only because it is subject to welcome adversity, but also because reality is just a term, and the perception of reality is just a perception. Consciousness, in order for it to be, has to be concious of something. The something of which we are all conscious, namely, the physical universe, is not how it appears to be. It appears to be made up of solids, liquid, and gases, contained within what may either be eternally expanding veil of ether, or it may be contained within what may be an expanding yet sooner or later to be imploding veil of ether. But even the scientists, who really dont know much of anything, have shown matter to be composed of atoms. And atoms to be composed of subatomic particles, which are composed of leptons, tau-leptons, quarks, etc. Which are composed of vibration and energy. But we cant touch, see, smell, hear (well, actually...), or taste that energy with the phsycial senses, because they are very limited. But what is objective, and this is only objective if you can transcend the limitations of the mind and body, is the eternal nature of God, the limitless, eternal force out of which this maya illusion universe was dreamed out of and when the dream is over, will no longer be. There is a state of objective, transcendental bliss that ALL of us can attain, but until we get there, we will always argue about this and that, this is impossible or that is impossible. Until you open up into the mind of God, all you have is your ego and your caused-thought matter and your consciousness, and this will always be subjective because it is alone, seperated from the creator, and grasping at things which are non eternal. But that state of samadhi, transcendental, all encompasing, ever new bliss, is the state that many men have attained (thought not many during the same generation, Im talking over the ages here) and once there, have realized that this is not subjective. This is not 'my concsiousness'. This is not 'my thought process'. This is eternity, one with the ever present Now which has always been, is Now, and forever always will be.
Sorry to go off topic, just laying down the framework to explain why all of our personal opinions and perceptions are subjective. And if you want to say that what I just said is personal opinion, try it yourself. I promise you will change your mind. In fact you may not have much of a mind left to change -

 

Yeah, because law enforcement definitely won't contradict my activity. It is a drug. Did I ever say "and nothing more?", no. I never agreed to it being illegal, I stated the fact that is scheduled all over the world and not intended for human consumption. Did I ever say I agreed to the laws?

Here, I'll share what shit you write to me over PM's and discuss here.

Yes, I speak from experience. I didn't research the main 'effects', I used internet research to make sure I wasn't putting my body in danger (physically). Have a problem with that? Who are you to put a claim on my experience? I've had plenty of intiment trips, that were very spiritual and enlightening. I even spoke in my post how it helped uplift the addiction to alcohol I had settled in, amongst other things in my life that made me guilty. Is that not past experience? You truly are a jack ass. Did you miss that I said...

(I said the effectiveness of LSD as a tool to aid onesself). And then I go on to mention how some people get carried away with that effectiveness.

I'm not telling people how it is, I'm telling people how it is in my eyes. Believe LSD is whatever you want it to be. A society saviour? Go for it. I don't agree, I have my opinions, I spoke them. I see it as a drug, and a tool for spiritual enlightenment assuming it's in the right persons hands. I do not support drugs for being fucked up, I stated that I know plenty of people who have no other use of it, therefore building on the point that as long as there's people doing stupid shit with it -- It's going to be restricted. Yes, I am blindly demonstrating how ignorant my youth is simply because I don't agree with your perspective on spraying people with LSD to improve society? Get a grip buddy.

Being on these forums hasn't changed who I am, it's opened me up to new idea's, perspectives, beliefs, even delivered me with far more knowledge in the more sensitive area's of LSD. Whether or not I fully agree is my right. I know you don't like me much but I'm perfectly fine for that.

"all i am saying is that it would be easier for you if you didnt come off like you actually know what you are talking about on every subject."

Alright, so I might aswell let everybody else do just that and never put in my 2 cents. Hey guess what? Ever heard of republicans and democrats? Standing on the outside you may think the both always want to take the opposite side! I guess our opinions can be metaphored to that. I do not intentionally take the other side, I just coincidentally do not agree with the majority of your idea's. I do not agree with dosing people who do not want it. I do not think it's right, and I believe people have rights, that society upholds, whether or not they exactly always will promise it to be there. If you have a problem with society, try transcendentalism and see how long it floats your boat.

I do not agree with what you were saying, and guess what, from the start. I made a post, you chose to disregard giving any thought to my idea's (thus being close minded). I thought your plan for society had flaws. I don't think it would work. You are speaking from one perspective in society, not society as a whole. You seem to forget your beliefs are merely opinions, (maybe even fact), and they aren't what society as a whole may always want.

Look, get some individuality. I don't do anything to look good, I could care less if you, or anybody else here dislikes me. Like I've said before, I respect a handful of people here... and hey, they might not even respect me back (and I respect that).

Your last statement is the equivalent to saying, "If you really love me, you would do this". Close minded would be if I made my claim without a logical reasoning as to why I make such claim. Do you understand that? Close minded is also when you blatantly disagree without a reason nor ration, like you have (which also displays ignorance). Instead of offering me further elaboration of your opinion (and 'or' disagreement) like somebody who properly debates would, you decided to render me close minded and dismiss the argument with your parting words. Well good job defending your problem free plan. Glad to see it's so flawless after all. Close minded would also be you not trying to understand where my reasoning is coming from -- to get a feel and maybe see if you just happened to agree yourself (and when DOING so it is called being open minded, get that?). I don't understand how I am close minded for disagreeing with you. Your idea isn't so open minded to others perspectives apparently.

To put it short, if you don't know how to argue, please don't send me these PM's. If you want to make a good point, make it, don't attack who I am, and then try and defend personal rights and freedoms on the side. Hypocrite. I don't say what I say just to be saying it, or just to be the one disagreeing. I speak from personal experience, yes I've done LSD, yes I've done RC's, and many other things which just aren't your business. When I first came here I didn't know much on the subject, well guess what? I learned, like everyone else. You can think I do things just to disagree, I'm perfectly fine with that. I'm not going to tell you to believe me, but at least expect me to be telling the truth (or what I apparently believe is truthful). I do not post these to make personal attacks, or turn your thread into a healthy debate. Do you know how logic works? If you are logically incorrect -- and still believe your POV, it's safe to assume that you are an ignorant individual, at least when it comes to that matter.

Hey, some people like to see what I have to say on the matter. I'm not going to tell you to aswell. I speak my thoughts and beliefs with confidence. I can defend my thoughts. If I kept eating at your idea eventually you would have to call ignorance, because it's built on opinion. If that opinion isn't agreed upon, or meets a contradiction through if's and then's, it's not a logical opinion. If you like being irrational, be irrational. I'm not going to stop you, but I'm not going to exactly waste my time arguing my points if you can't be respectful enough to accept the fact that sometimes you may just be wrong. I've been wrong myself at times. But if you want to call me wrong, you might aswell prove how so first (rationally ofcourse).

Anyways have a good night. Hope you can understand sarcasm too because there's a good few lines in here that are so.







And now that I am finished defending myself, let me just put it this way:

As much as I like the idea of world peace, or society flowing in a perfect manner, it's not as easy as to accomplish as it may sound. Sure, from your position in society you probably know exactly what to change to make your life in society perfect -- it doesn't mean the same applies to everybody else.

 

A dog's reality consists largely of licking its own ass, and a couple people on this thread may or may not benefit from restraining themselves from this activity at times, hell I will admit that even I border on pride based posting once in a while; but, that is just life. Instead of bitching about it, be a bigger person and ignore others who have strayed from viewing the larger picture. Some people's reality will include arguing on the net about topics which stray from the original post. One of my favorite quotes "He will not enter Paradise who hath a single grain of pride in his heart” - Muhammad
Without anything to lose (which we do not have anyway) we could easily just ignore posts which we do not add anything useful. It is up to you 3xi, your post. I suggest keeping it on topic.

 

How is such posts not useful? I believe that would be an opinion. Perhaps off topic, but if it is in further elaboration of a point being debated, then it certainly is 'useful'. He clearly brought upon his idea's for discussion. I think a flawless idea could work through the bends, and questions people may have which could potentially contradict such idea or render it not such a flawless idea after all (Like his idea, if he can't support his idea through the bends.. how effective would it be for society? If it can't survive past a single "if then", how smart of an idea is it exactly? Perhaps it would need changing if it has any hope.). Many great things that changed society started off as something very different than what it may have been at the time of being effective. Bills work like that in the United States too, as an example. Before they are accepted by the majority, things may just have to be altered. Don't disregard things simply because it is in disagreement in your own idea, unless your key to society's bliss consists of ignorance.

Anyway, hope you choose to see my point.

 

Whoa there Hoss(swoosh) hold on now. I did not specifically state that you or anyone else said something that was not useful, I kept my statement general. Perhaps if you read my post you will see that I was not talking to you and in fact my post pretty clearly alluded to the fact that I was ignoring you and your posts all together.

"Bills work like that in the United States too, as an example." - This is actually not an example, it is an instance.

"Anyways have a good night. " - This usually means that you are not going to post anymore tonight last time I checked.. hmmm

Now that you have made an ass of yourself by defending yourself from a statement that was not about you, I will go back to ignoring your posts on this thread.

 

To remind everyone once again, 3xi and myself are aware that our ideas are very rough and have stated that several times in our original posts. The goal here is to further develop our plan into a workable system if I am not mistaken. All logical additions are welcome. If anyone wants to further argue the forcible administration of lsd please be aware that this was never even considered in this thread. We were only considering the use of lsd instead of bullets to the chest/ head when the choice is death or lsd. If anyone wants to debate the use of lsd in any other way there are many threads which have already been posted regarding this topic.

 

In a German hostage situation, an opiate thousands of times more powerful than heroin was misted into a building to instantly knock out the hostages and their captors. Many of them died from the drug. If lsd where used instead they could have saved lives. This is an EXAMPLE of a circumstance that we could have touched on in this thread. Is it worth killing people instead of dosing them? Mandatory dosing was never an issue, reform of murderous law enforcement was.

 

um... yes you did

 

if you go back and read you will notice that most people agree that dosing someone one LSD without them knowing it or wanting it is wrong. we all agree that it is wrong to dose someone on LSD. if they want to trip they will take it themselves.

elfin1mf suggested that we use LSD instead of bullets. a very strange idea that seems better than what is currently going on in the world. still i dont believe that it is a good idea. i have already made that very clear. therefore it would be nice if people didnt keep bringing that one point up as if it should be the reason to disregard all of the other very good ideas that we have talked about.

i may not agree with enlfin1mf's idea about shooting people with LSD but that does not mean that i should consider everything that he has to say flawed in some way. i know a good idea when i hear or read it. some people are capable of not liking someone’s idea because they dont like the person who came up with it - as they hold a grudge. please guys, could we stay on subject.

swoosh - i sent you a private message because i did not want to have a private off topic discussion in this thread - so kindly - keep it on subject. if you have something to say to me swoosh that is of personal nature - send it in a pm like i had the decency to do. thank you.

 

Alluded is a word? You understand my point but grab me on a technicallity, apparently you aren't so technical yourself? and ... when it can be considered an example anyway in technicalities? It doesn't matter what it was, you chose to call it a technicallity to ignore the point and dismiss what I had to say. Clever technique to have an argument which is virtually about nothing I even stated? Well I'll let you stick to the name calling and useless debate defenses. Perhaps you should go DOSE, you seem to be irrational and could use the enlightenment.

"This usually means that you are not going to post anymore tonight last time I checked.. hmmm"

I wasn't sure yet, what does that have to do with the point of my message at all? Way to make an ass out of yourself saying that I am doing just that, assuming that I meant that post in any negative manner (clearly had a subtle tone wouldn't you agree?), overlooking all the major points simply to make a few personal attacks (learn how to defend your arguments). I guess ignorance is bliss though, so I won't bother you or give you the respect. You can discuss your idea with people who agree, since anybody else will make you throw a tantrum. Why ignore me 'by default', when I am trying to contribute a parallel to the subject? Why don't you read what I say instead of 'assuming' it's something that has to do with nothing in the topic. I'm bringing up my own POV's on the idea. If you can't even defend your idea's, why even have them? They must obviously have a weak foundation. How would you ever argue your idea in the real world? Make fun of the guy who mentions out a logical flaw in the idea? Don't try and play yourself off as an intellect, you're clearly anything but.

"The goal here is to further develop our plan into a workable system if I am not mistaken. All logical additions are welcome."

Apparently by this statement you agree with what I said about idea's that change society need to be further developed and altered so they can be agreed on by the whole, and I offered my logical parallels to the story. So then what the fuck was the above about? No better way to say you ignored the post to pull some shit out your ass. I won't bother arguing or trying to elaborate anymore with you though, as I'm not going to waste my time trying to understand your point if I don't get the same respect.

Lmao. Yeah, I said I know PEOPLE WHO USE IT AS A DRUG AND NOTHING MORE. I didn't SAY LSD was a DRUG 'AND' nothing more. That's what you called me on earlier -- when I never put it like that. I even stated how it was 'something more' (spiritual tool), myself.

Lol. I'm not even going to write anymore regarding that. I think he needs to be shot by his own idea to realize how much of a bad idea it is.

You sent me a PM asking me how I could be so sure of the post I made in here agreeing with the dude who disagreed. I further explained myself, it was clearly on topic if you read it. Elf just doesn't know what he's talking about, probably figured it was a long post against you and nothing else, it actually wasn't... but why read what people write in a discussion, right?

 

this isn't even about society anymore, it is about how you guys (elfin and 3xi) are asses. you always shoot someone down who doesn't agree with you, not in a nice way either, and then accuse them of doing that to you. so go ahead and bitch. you're probably gonna get up tomorrow and go to work (hopefully), get paid, buy and use goods and services provided to you by society that you take for granted, all while enjoying a relatively high standard of living.

This is why acid is illegal and ppl are scared to do it. they're afraid they will end up like you, irrational and delusional.


woot woot! swoosh is the shit! i've never seen someone get called out so bad! haha...

 

Please stick to the topic guys. This was a wonderful thread full of different opinions, and it is turning into a thread about picking apart peoples short comings and obviously is getting pretty negative. I am not going to close the thread but if we cant get back to the topic of societies ills and what we can do to better or worsen them, I will have no choice but to close it.

 

lets get back to the topic please... and if you have already said something there is no need to say it again and again.


closing a thread doesnt make sense when you could just delete a couple of posts. this thread is good. where some people are taking it is not.

 

That is why I did not close the thread 3xi, I gave a warning that it will be closed if this off topic discussion does not cease immediatley. If a post has a personal attack that is highly offensive, or contains spam of any sort, I will delete it. But Im not here to delete post by post several peoples comments, I will leave this kind of thing as it is. But if the comments dont stop, I will close the thread. I realize that closing the thread doesnt make sense, hence, the thread remains open. If there is any problem with my warning, take it up with salmon4me or Skip, but dont post it here. Thank you. -

 

my wife and i were talking the other night and we came up with a good idea for health care. in the op i mentioned having a family pot for healthcare. family members (who get along) can all put money into the pot every month. we could make it so that your family pot is kept at a financial institution. we could set this up so that the pot could go into a negative figure up to a certain amount with an approved family credit. in addition to a safety net in the form of credit we could also have a charitable organization who will provide financial assistance to families who need help. maybe a loan that you only have to pay back when your family can afford to with no interest. every month when people allocate where their money will go they can also give any extra money they might have to the charitable health organization to help families who might not have it as good as they do.

 

It started when 3xi made a statement about how in canada 1 day’s work per week is deducted in taxes (approx.) I thought, “I don’t mind dedicating 1 day’s work if it meant everyone had warm housing, full bellies and DECENT healthcare” —many hail Canada for its healthcare (and I am grateful for it & use it) but the system is VERY wasteful & mismanaged.

I believe that the systems we have in place could work, its not the system that is flawed—it’s the management of that system that is flawed. Put a few high vibration lightworkers in the place of “career” politicians and we have a whole new world!

About only paying for services we use: I’d vote for that. Currently we have no children and ideally we wouldn’t send them to school anyhow—so why should I pay so the government can program the next generation that I’ll be at mercy to when I’m old? If however I did send my child to school, its only fair that I contribute to its overhead.

What you guys describe sounds a lot like insurance in the good ol’ days before insurance. A bunch of farmers would pool resources and keep it in a special kind of bank account. When 1 farmer needed it, it was there.

Anyone here watch the movie Stranger Than Fiction? The female lead character returned her tax return & check paying for everything except the portion that contributed to the war in iraq (in the film she got audited for it) –see…you guys aren’t alone with this idea—those seeds have already been planted on the silver screen!

I’m tired of reading articles about my local politicians spending money on booze and limos…but ESPECIALLY the booze—that irks the shit out of me! I’m tired of it. I want that money to go to the poor, the sick, the lonely, our roads, our rivers….

at least if they substatuted lsd for the booze they may actually find solutions to societies ills!

C’mon guys: RUN FOR OFFICE!