what is REAL?

When you said that nothing real can be threatened, by implication you are saying that someone being tortured is not real--therefore, an illusion, since nothing real can be threatened.

What is the difference between being an illusion and being not real?

 

Who told you that nothing real can be threatened?

 

No I am not saying someone being tortured is not real. I am saying that you may have illusions about what that means and therefor feel threatened. For instance, you may find pain threatening in that instance, however that is only a threat if feeling pain is not real. It is real and normal to feel pain. Taking it further you may feel threatened by the prospect that you may die from being tortured. There is no threat in truth, unless you think you will live in your body forever.

What is not real does not exist. An illusion is a misapprehension about what is.

 

It is inherent in the meaning of the word. Real does not become unreal. Only reality exists.

 

Is the pain real, or is it not? How it is felt is not an illusion. It is based on the reality of the pain. It is not one's interpretation of the pain; it is the reality of it.


If I am about to torture you, then you will feel threatened, if not terrified. You will not feel threatened by the truth; you will feel threatened by the reality. And the reality is that the pain that you are about to endure is no more an illusion than you are. You cannot separate yourself from your experience.



And I did not ask you whether or not real does or doesn't become unreal, or whether or not reality is the only thing that exists. I asked you who told you that nothing real can be threatened, and that nothing unreal exists.

 

me, and what i do, and see is real. everything else is skeptial to me.

 

didnt you have philosophy classes in high school?

 

Yes, there are different levels of reality, all very confusing. But you are confused as to what I have posted. I have not framed the question incorrectly. I was quite specific in my question. You have apparently chosen to frame it contrary to my meaning.

And I don't know why you interjected the concept of unconsciousness versus consciousness. That was not part of my question.

Define threatened. Then calculate whether or not the infliction of severe pain will cause you to feel threatened. Then ask yourself what it is that is being threatened. Then ask yourself whether or not something real can or cannot be threatened.

 

The word in operation is threatened. I said nothing real can be threatened. Comfort is a transient state. Pain is real. That you need to be afraid of pain, is not a requirement.

You are simply mistaken about what my response would be and also mistaken about your capacity to carry such a thing out. I in no wise feel threatened by real things and as much is so by hypothetical circumstances. Terror or fear comes from the imagination.

I have a normal physiological startle reflex that kicks in due to loud noise, the feeling of falling, or liquid entering my trachea. I do not have the abnormal miscreant belief in monsters.

What do you call it when an answer comes from the intense desire to know? I heard it through the grape vine.

 

Except,

the thought comes first.

 

For the sake of discussion, please define "threat." Do this first, if you would, please.

Terror and fear can come from the imagination, as you say, but you are reframing the question to include only the hypothetical. However, I am not speaking hypothetically. I am speaking in terms of the reality of something that occurs daily in this world--torture.

So, when you repeat something that you've heard from someone else; that is, that "nothing real can be threatened, and that nothing unreal exists," remember that we are discussing reality and not an idea about that reality.

If being afraid of pain is not a requirement, explain what the correct response looks and feels like.

 

I did not ask you to define it to my satisfaction. I simply asked you to define it. Once again, you are reframing things to your own desires.

 

Meagain,

I believe I have defined threat. What makes you think that I didn't?

 

Awareness, thought, and experience are separations you are creating to avoid seeing your whole self.

All is one . . . all of it!

 

You need to learn the difference between the expressions "All is one" and "every thing is one."

 

Reality is non-threatening in that reality always supports it's constituents. I said that you were mistaken about what my reaction would and I say it based on experience. Have you ever been stripped naked against your will and held under ice filled water to the point of hypothermia, I have. I have experienced many seriously harsh conditions. So what is that about repeating something you heard or imagined might be the case as compared to real things? I think your testimony is the one more akin to hearsay in comparison to mine.

.

It is not a matter of correct. It will have all the meaning you give to it.
There is good reason to regard yourself as safe in any situation. Fear has but one range of responses available to it for ascertaining the environment and it ranges from suspicion at best to viciousness at worst. A decision contrived of fear is not likely to be an advantage.

 

I'm not sure whether your belief that I have never been tortured is a baseless assumption or a blind judgement. At any rate, that is not my problem.

I have been tortured. Why do you suppose I am using that situation as an example of what is real and and what is a threat? Perhaps you should have asked me first before beginning the comparison game. The question of whether or not your pain is bigger than mine is not a question at all, but rather an indication of a belief in degrees.