What is it I'm doing wrong?

Are you talking to me?

 

Anyway, it seems an appropriate time to post a link to this famous treatise by Gaudapadacharya, translated by Swami Rama, called "Enlightenment Without God. Here it is for download.

http://members.cox.net/l-v-x/enlightenment-without-god-swami-rama.pdf

 

just relax your mind is obviously running away with you when you try
deep breaths and blank mind and dont try to think dont think about somthing because you will
you'll get it just sit there and breathe

 

One thing you will learn eventually is that there is absolutely no point in trying to prove by logic that one theory is better than another.

The whole point is to transcend the rational intellect. Not to disparige or ignore it or decend into an irrational mysticism, but to arrive at a higher mode of knowing.
From such a perspective, what appear to the surface mind as contradictions can bee seen to be all equally true.

No doubt there are numerous ways to meditate. The trouble is that many are simply not that effective, and tend only to entrench the limited views of the intellect, or a sense of the superiority of one system as against another.
Also, as can be seen from this thread, it often re-inforces the ego - the very thing we're trying to overcome.

 

Ironically that last comment is probably directed at me... because you think I'm mistaken about things, correct?

It is a terrible tragedy resulting from the muddled mess of misinformation out there, that logic and faith are often thought of as mutually exclusive. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Contradictions can be seen as mutually complimentary truths, yes, but still, you must choose how to act, and this is a very specific thing. It seems that time has jaded you, understandably I might add. There is always a way to express Truth, despite the limitedness of human expression.

To resign one's self to an ineffability that is beyond expression... how could you have arrived at such a realization, without directions where none can be given? Moreover, how can others arrive to similar realizations? Is it not crucial to examine in retrospect the logic of one's path, to see the future more clearly?

In short, I do not believe that finding the Divine is a matter of luck. If there is one to be learnt, then there is always a message to spread.

But in any case,

*takes out magnifying glass*

Are you , sire, being LOGICAL??! Shame on you!

 

To BlackBillBlake,
Prabhu, you are wasting your prana and time to attempt to reach Mr Phoenix. Obviously, he has no spiritual realization of any form, and furthermore, hasn't a clue to the complete limiting function of the thinking mind to stop, filter, and distort what could be insights into the absolute.

To all of you on the "God" issue, you may "think" or cognate what you wish, and by the way thought itself is a form of "vritti prana karma, but God realization is all the higher forms of Yoga were ever about, and of these forms, The Hatha/Kriya/Laya Sadhanas that utilize awakening the Kundalini and getting Her into Sahasrara are the core of the discilplines of total God or divine realization. God is "All Reality". All the universes, the entire reality we walk, breath and move through, is the mind of God. Our experience of Life is a dream in the mind of God, The Divine Self. The question is not where or is there God. The question is where is there not God. All is the divine, unawareness of this is Maya. But only the Devi in the Sahasrara brings one to that reality.

The key statement here is "experiencing" this. Say or think what you may, but this entity lives, breaths, and functions through the day with the fructified phenomenon of the complete Kundalini process. The realizations of God and the Devi I speak of, are from direct living experience, not a thought, thinking model, something I read or was told. This process directs and controls my entire existence, all day and night. And is an unmistakble living experience of consciousness realization. Not something that may be this or that. And this all came about from succinctly following daily, for many hours on some days, over the past 12 years, the Yoga Tantra Sadhana as directed by my Guru Paramahamsa Swami Satyananda of Yoga Bharati University of Bihar India.

Moving on, by the way Mr.Phoenix, there is no evil, or Devil trying to promote such, and your adherence to such views clearly indicate your strong ego religiocentric consciousness. All is God in one form of consciousness; either in descent and "unconsciousness" such as the ego, or ascent and super consciousness as in the case of the realized being.
Your writing is indicative of one with a type of karmically directed thinking consciousness, which is also why you cling to your dualistic position of models, points of view, and various forms of thinking diatribes.

If you at least had any real knowledge of most eastern systems, be they Hindu or Buddhist, you would know that they all express a need to transcend the dualistic property of the thinking situation process and manner of navigating reality with thought.

But since you have no clue as to what spiritual realization entails or the potential systems that lead one to that, you hang on to the mis-guided notion of talking, debating, philosophizing, and so forth. Believe it or not my friend, there are levels of non-thinking consciousness that you can reach when all thought, and I mean "ALL THOUGHT", goes out of the window, and you stand basking in the radiance of full blown total God Consciousness, known as "sat-cit-ananda", in the Sahasrara. And this term "Sat-Cit-Ananda", is something this Yogin would suggest that all of you aspire to experience.

As a final statement, I will quote one of the final verses out of the Nath Tantric text, the "Hatha Yoga Pradipika", "As they remain in Maya, philosophers talk and philosophize, while Yogis practice and realize. This is why espouse the Kundalini. Namaste.

 

Many people are skeptical of first-hand spiritual experience so I try not to speak about my own. But OK. I have complete control of my mind, I can completely stop thinking on the drop of a dime. I've been cursed and attempted to be possessed on serveral occasins, coupled with loads of astral communication, so I know evil is real, although it has no power over me now that I understand what it is. One occasion of possession gave me a good run for my money, in the mirror my iris was split in two, I could see my reflection in it double fold, in the top half of the circle, and then mirrored again in the bottom. I have raised my kundalini on many occasions, and opened all my chakras many times also. Visions, trances, empathic communication, channeling, and energy manipulation I've all experienced. I have realized how to be aware subtly, to think without words, in pure concept (therefore much faster than with words as well). I've astral travelled a few times and back in the day often made lights flicker and streetlights turn on or off accidentally. I don't see much use in visual astral travel though so I usually take the mentalist approach. Back in the day lots of insane divine coincidence also occured to help me wake up. I believe psychic abilities are a distraction so I do not focus on them. I have reached some very transcendent and even explosive meditative states. I live in the Now, through the middle path, leaning to the left. I am self-realized because I am at peace with my ego and have realized my immortality as an individual agent of consciousness. My past is completely recapitulated, and my controlled folly fairly refined, at least for my age, to take a term from Carlos Castaneda. Yes, for me now is my relationship with others my chief concern, diving back into the world I abandoned long ago. You've got to loooove controlled folly!

Self-realization is the beginning, not the end; expressing the ineffable is a grand and lofty task. Ironically, when I express the illusion of dualism well, I am often accused of being dualistic, it's nothing new. We seem to lack the necessary terms and frameworks needed to communicate on such a level these days, we need to re-invent the way we communicate.

 

So what was your point concisely. I believe that you were here previously under another name, speaking to the same effect. Maybe about a year back. Is that so?

 

Well that I lacked spiritual experience was an argument being used against me. Call me a show off now and that would really be typical.

As far as I can recall, I've never used these boards before, except once a while back just seeing who might be interested in setting up an alternative community. Maybe once I came here and then forgot my username and password, but I don't remember it. Over time all these discussion forums seem to blend into one...

 

Ok Mr.Phoenix,
With all of your psychic smorgasboard experience, its strange and oxymoronic that you would make a statement such "one can't meditate today, and if you try you won't be able to do it", like you made several comentaries back.

And by the way, cakra openings and closings, even getting the Devi aroused, is not an awareness that constitutes Divine realization. She must reach Sahasrara, and not only that, but access Sahasrara through the Brahma Nadi.

From my own spiritual stance, it is the total realization of how much one as a person of self doesn't exist, and how much the immanant absolute is all that exists as reality, and is actually ones self, is a culminating point in reaching turiya. The upanishads, tantras, as well as countless Swamis and Yogis throughout antiquity all have said the same thing. To recant your psychic exploits is more ego fodder.

Throughout my transition, I too and still have all sorts of psychic stuff going on. But since I am becoming aware that I don't and never did exist, neither does all that stuff.

All that exists is the absolute, and awareness of ones individuality is consciousness descent from that.

You mention about people viewing your comments as totally dualistic and ego positioned, look at all the mumbo-jumbo you said to Megavan in your first commentary.
Personally my friend, I consider your position as being neck deep in Karma.

You like to insist on the reality of evil. If you actually had realization of the level you claim, the first thing that goes out the window with the ego is the duality of Good and Bad, Good and Evil. All is One, and what seems to be evil is structured by God to drive the individual minds to seek awakening. Namaste

 

Chodpa Prabhu, the boy is faking it, can you dig it?

 

I don't know. He's not selling anything. He wouldn't waste his time to be here I don't believe. Do you remember another meditation thread where the other guy felt very negative, and yet was not hostile? It was about a year back.

So maybe Phoenix isn't the same person but they share similarities. Not for us to say who is right or wrong. Some people are harmed by relaxation and meditation. There's studies which show some people have some adverse relaxation response.

Meditation isn't for everyone.

 

This is true, some people have so many negative samskaras in their lower cakras, that any subjective attempt brings up fear and more ego defense. His position on evil is definitely a defensive one.
As far as why he is here, it seems to be simple ego tripping.
Lets go back to his original thread, where he was adamant about how I was inherently wrong about dhyana leading to the divine, and how someone should have dismantled my position. This dude targeted me out of the blue.
This is an aggressive and tamasic, not to mention completely wrong stance. He knows nothing of anything outside of Gaudiya Vaisnaiva Math, although he won't admit this, and his attack on what I know is a very effective spiritual practice was one of total maya and ignorance. I'm simply going by what this very young guy has said.
Look at his statement about the fact that one can't meditate, so don't bother trying. This is ridiculous. He has an academic grammatical format, but his spiritual awareness is of a lower level, and basically Rajasic/Tamasic vaikari karma.
He has written and spoken alot, and said basically nothing absolute.
Namaste. Love Ananda Service ybas

 

You're defensive as well. He didn't single you out. He was speaking to the dogmatic positions a couple were taking about meditation and God, saying like I was that there's other meditation forms besides those of finding God.

It would be hard to equate the actual kundalini techniques with God for instance as they are about finding Kundalini. Buddhist techniques are about finding Buddha, and so on.

I believe he was describing this in more detail by saying one can meditate on evil things as well. So meditation is a facile word. Maybe too facile. And making claims about what meditation is about is also a bit facile.

Or maybe I am giving him too much credit.

 

Yes - probably you are right.
Of course, some yogis also philosophize - from a position of knowledge though, not ignorance.

Namaskars.

 

The idea is that when the Kundalini Shakti is awakened and rises to the Sahasrara Chakra, God is realized, and this is the goal of Kundalini Yoga as far as I understand it.
It is hard to see what would motivate someone to begin Kundalini Yoga if they didn't have some belief in God.

 

Ah, now I begin to see the picture. I love to understand people better. One person is so different than the next. Understanding people's differences is crucial to develope a coherent human reality perspective.

Yogi Bhairava, first to put the oddity aside - as I stated previously, my example of the modern inability to meditate, was an example of ideas that have scriptural validity, to express that just because something is written in an Eastern spiritual text doesn't make it the rule of law. I fully believe in the human capacity for meditation.

Moving on, I feel that the culminating point of your spiritual aspiration as you put it is dualistic. I find that people speaking from a truer perspective might often say that a more ignorant person is dualistic, but ignorant people might also often say that a more truer person is dualistic; I do not believe the modern marketplace of ideas has evolved sufficiently to be able to yet discern dualism from non-dualism. From my perspective, an illusion exists to the extent that it is perceived, else it is not perceived at all in the first place. I believe there is a route *through* the illusion to the ultimate reality which is more or less something like total emptiness/fullness depending on your school of thought. To deny Maya outright, is I believe tantamount to blissful ignorance and blind faith, based on logical grounds that are in turn based on unsound premises. You can attain a certain level of spiritual advancement this way, but to truly flip the proverbial switch, it is necessary to check *all* baggage at the door.

The right hand path approach involves going step by step through the Maya which takes lifetimes upon lifetimes to achieve, like wearing away a stone with the constant stroking of a feather as it has been described. The left hand path approach involves throwing the whole thing onto a canvas, examining the paint, and trying to discern the constants, patterns, modalities, and relationships. Nobody can do only one or the other, but one inevitably leans more or less in one direction, and may be said to be following a particular path. The middle path involves finding a balance with this for one's own self, thus walking the middle path first, and then leaning more or less to the right or to the left. To have or not have the middle path is the switch to flick, and of course we all walk the middle path deep down.

So I believe that it is important to regard Maya in a balanced way, and not to dismiss it out of hand. It is not completely irrelevent, for it *is*, and to cut if off in one fail swoop leaves your subconscious more open to its influence, which you then have to deal with through your consciousness, but never completely until you discern properly and realize the reality of the situation (and stop denying the thing or things in question, as if mere illusion).

I apologize for my initial foray into this thread, the way I comported myself. But I was purposely prodding, and I knew that someone who had nothing to learn from my words would take no offense to them anyways. The reason why I singled your view out (which a few posters have promoted) is that I was considering the nature of this website, hipforums.com, and I did not feel your view to be in the majority. I frequent discussion forums more in tune with my own views (still lacking, but hey), but I don't think I was really biased.

About evil and conspiracy... I'm afraid it's all true.. the full truth is available nowhere.. you just have to piece it together yourself. The universe is INSANE. Sort of in a good way. It is futile really for me to get into this summarily, it will just misillustrate the truth, so I am adding in this phrase lol.

Chodpa, I never meant to express that you should meditate on evil things. That would be very bad indeed.

 

Mr Phoenix,
The Sadhana I follow is about experiencing one thing, and one thing only, and that is experiencing and living as ones own being, the consciousness of Siva.

This consciousness is possessed with the attributes of Sat-Cit-Ananda, being-consciousness-bliss.

This consciousness, "CIT", is the total consciousness of God, and is the living and life bestowing consciousness that constitutes the "absolute self" of all reality, as well as the lives of all individual beings, yourself included.

This consciousness at the absolute level is without Maya, and one in it experiences the reality of every day life and the physical world as one living being. All of us, the earth, the sky, everything, is all one being, the being of God, the being of Siva. This physical aspect of reality is the Devi, and She serves as a mask on the face of Siva.

When in Maya ones experiences oneself as an individual walking about in the world. When Maya is Transcended then one experiences oneself as one with all physical reality as the living body of the Devi, as well as experiencing that physical reality of the Devi as one with Her lord, Lord Siva, the spiritually transcendent.

Awareness of ones self as a person and individual is Maya. Experiencing oneself as the beforedescribed universal self of Siva is Maya-less.
You don't dismiss Maya with thought; to do so puts you in it evenmore.Maya is technically the state of ego consciousness. The Kundalini in Her dormancy holds the ego as a "pranic trajectory", intact. Yogic practices, such as the ones that constitute my daily sadhana cause that prana to invert back into their cakra sources, causing the Devi Kundalini to awaken. Further practice allows Her entrance into the Sahasrara. When this happens your consciousness of ego is withdrawn, and replaced with the unitary consciouness of Siva and Sakti in union. This union is experienced as Sat-Cit-Ananda.

To say the full truth is available nowhere is the greatest Maya my friend. But you think as you wish and remain as a conscious state where you are. I as a Tantric Yogin am indebted in subjective sacrificial Yogic practice to allow the Kundalini to return to Her Lord, Lord Siva, and withdraw my consciousness of finite self with Her, replacing it with their union of Sat-Cit-Ananda, as the living realm of Sahasrara.

Love Ananda Service

Namaste Yogin Bhairava Atmabhoda Sarasvati

 

what i do is i close my eyes and when i breathe i visualize my breath radiating thru my bones, starting in my collor bone and traveling through my body, down my arms, thru my chest. eventually u may end up feeilng some sort of tingaling sensation in ur bones. it works every time!

 

Try learning self hypnosis. Its a great way to relax and is a similar sensation to meditation. There are loads of different MP3's that can be downloaded on www.DownloadHypnosisNow.com .