What is a properly functioning democracy?

Well then paying for "your" education.

It seems you do not know what a benefit is and are confusing it with commercial law.

No education? So you believe that the government pays for doctors and engineers with tax money?

Even if those skills were outside my abilities requiring someone else to do the job, taxes are not paying for them, hence I cannot benefit what so ever by something they did not do. That and how can you label what I am forced to PURCHASE for myself a benefit?

Likewise with your opt out, opt out means to CHOOSE, you know like choosing to have an abortion? No one demands that you leave the country to exercize your right to choose why would you demand that of others who wish to choose to abort the unfair taxation being imposed upon them?

Here are the fruits of all those tax dollars for education:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpAOwJvTOio

Arguably I do live in a country of idiots

 

False? How? The money is appropriated to schools.

there is no need to earmark what one is not forced to pay.

In other words money that I spend or would spend privately for my own education, and I do btw, all the time, without government is being paid to educate someones chump and sold as if it is some kind of a benefit to me to produce the obama phone culture, when the fact of the matter is that most mikey d's and other jobs that these people do could be very easily fully automated.

Karen wants to argue that these taxes are used to produce engineers doctors and scientists in which case as soon as she tells me what state is doing that I am moving there.

The only reason btw that government wants their paws in education is so that they can claim an "interest" in anything produced by anyone attending to be under their jurisdiction. No kidding this goes back before the formation of the states in the us! When states interest was expected and accepted as the norm as a result of their feudal contracts.

Look up burzinski and the antineoplastons he researched that detects those susceptible to cancer in advance and in addition no other treatment has even scratched the surface of his track record curing brain cancer and in nearly all case permanent remission.

They actually went to the extreme and "trumped" up charges against him to throw him in jail while they stole his freakin patents.

The atrocity was so disturbing that it was even brought before a congressional hearing however government never punishes government and of course despite the harassment and attempts to destroy the man by complete agency abuse no ones heads rolled.

The only suitable label to place on the US government today is tyrannical despotism, trough their greed and insatiable hunger for power they have defacto made GOOD PEOPLE in this country the enemy of state.

 

A Democracy (not Democrat party) is where the people directly rule with direct voting on all matters. A Republican form of government (not Republican party) is where the people vote for a congress to vote on governing matters. A democratic monarchy is where the people vote for a parliament and have a monarch living the high life at their expense.

 

You haven't been doing that either.

Nothing in your post made any sense at all. I hope you have an excuse, like being drunk or high.

 

voting for congress and voting for parliament are the same thing.

 

What money? Your money? Your money goes into a classification called tax revenue. You are claiming vested interest in something you only have vague interest in.





.

Before you label anything else figure out what your own motives are.

 

Yeh my money. which is the score keeper of the fruits of my labor for my survival and you betcha I have a vested property interest.

My motives are SELFISH, I speak for INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS, not sitting around a camp fire in a "one-tune" world wide love in singing kum-by-ah.

You get whats yours, I want whats mine.

A perfect democracy would not stomp on those rights, a properly functioning democracy would stomp on only a couple of those rights, out of necessity, otherwise why would I want a democracy or worse an even further removed republic?

What 12 cylinder brain would give anyone or anything the authority to determine the course of their lives except for the "extreme" minimum of absolute "necessity"?

 

A properly functioning democracy is one without corruption, where people regulate themselves and don't take unfair advantage of their freedoms, where everyone respects everyone else's rights and they don't step on those rights. In other words, it's a fantasy.

 

Well. then. the democracy must allow that the culture, as it were breath. with the functioning of free actions by the majority in order that necessity allow cognizance of what the majority wants. Democracy cannot defend private ownership, but private ownership loses it's function within the existing Democracy.

Instead there is the function of taking ownership of the developing capacity for legal judgment. Yes, Religion (or religious conscience), for instance, can hinder the functioning of democracy. Such is "hindering Necessity", and everything that makes democracy anything to be cognizant about for social freedom.

Corruption may be something good. History will only perceive It to Be Bad.

 

Actually whether you have sufficient calorie intake and security is the score keeper of your survival. How much money you make is how much money you make. What freight do you charge for example a loved one for you consideration? If they don't pay you or otherwise give you something of value does that mean that your affections are unworthy?

By and large I can't take your complaints seriously because I can't get past the first descriptive line. If our initial premises are inaccurate our analysis if not of much use.
If you have legitimate complaints they are hidden to me behind this vague sensationalism.

Sorry if I've been a pain, carry on

 

Seems like we may have diverged from the same page. I have no idea where you are trying to go with the loved one, freight, and consideration points with respect to democracy and government?

I thought I was pretty clear but lets try an alternative angle of explanation instead.

We all have a body which should be and we like to presume is exclusively and singularly our individual personal interest and ultimate dominion. Likewise we all have space which is exclusively and legitimately ours to control even if that space is limited to only our body and its actions.

Agreements chip away and eventually dissolve that dominion from purely sovereign status to that of slavery. Pure democracy or republic for that matter dissolves personal dominion to that of slavery to mob think, mob rule, the tyranny of the mob, which destroys all culture.

Now when I talk about money as a gauge, I am talking about a measure the sacrifices I made. The labor of the body. The benefit society receives from those sacrifices that I made because I chose to sacrifice enjoyment of slothful pleasure to work and spend my time instead doing something productive. This is about labor, property, democracy etc, not love and family.

That said I have no problem with caps, there should be, frankly, there has to be, but to tax anyone prior to the point of gross excess for purchasing and owning a home to provide for their survival is criminal, and any government that forces their services upon people without the individual ability to chose to opt out are the filth and scum of the earth. It is slavery. Democracy or whatever label you want to put on it in america has degenerated into slavery.

This is not about how much money I make, its about the ability to control and KEEP the fruits of my blood sweat and tears. My labor. Which is my property.

I do not labor to feed the world who could give a damn if I live or die. I have no obligation to do so. I do have an obligation to protect them from an invading forces from without or within. Likewise I choose the charities of "my" choice, and the government has no legitimate authority to interfere with those choices or force me to pay money for their choices, democracy, republic or otherwise.

Maybe survival to you is full stomach and being surrounded by armed guards, however survival to me includes also enjoying the benefits of my sacrifices. That until the point of extreme excess is reached you nor anyone else has any legitimate right or authority to trespass upon.

Thats what i am talking about.

 

Necessity is that which must exist. That we have no other alternative. Everything else should be optional. There is not much that "legitimately" falls into the category of "Necessity".
So what would you use as a gauge for necessity?

 

Thank you for hanging in and helping me understand your position. The comment about loved ones is in regard to your statement that money is the measure of your effort. I don't know if your have children but mine don't pay me and yet I don't feel at all impoverished by that fact.

Okay this is distortion that affects your calculus. There is no right to life or liberty but we have and extant capacity to create temporary conditions for ourselves. So this initial premise is an imagined standard.

Agreements ease contention and build cooperation. It is when you disagree that you feel like you are contending for your freedom.

Every creature works.
You think you are special in some regard in comparison to all other life that you should be served and fed your meals? This is your contract with life not mine and needn't be any one else's. I have had to make no sacrifices and in fact sacrificial giving is a contradiction in terms. So in those terms what you get reflects how you have applied yourself. The laws of energetic exchange say that for every action there is an equal and complementary reaction, therefore the effort you put in is the work you get out.
If you regard a bargain as paying less and getting much in return you are bound to feel impoverished and bitter. Making money the representative of your value leaves you subject to inflation and depreciation.

Frankly the only thing you have offered me is crocodile tears. All this is how you value your own life and I think you are shooting yourself in the foot and picking off additional appendages as you go. What do you think labor property democracy, etc. are for if not for love and family. How many corporate entities are you?

And maybe it is not so you can't use that position you describe as a metric to explain your position.

This is as good as your program gets, bitter recrimination. I stand toe to toe with life and give up nothing that I would prefer to keep.

 

No that is merely your spin based on disconnected faulty conclusions as I have once again explained above.

 

No conclusions, cognition of the effects and actual prepositions of your arguments as you posit them.

To be personally cognisant is not a strawman argument.

Obviously if you regard effort and labor as being different then your accounting becomes arbitrary. Since you offer no standard metric I cannot take your complaints seriously. It's like listening to urban legend.

No problem. The reason people hang, gas, stone, electrocute, drown, impale or beat to death people who murder our fellow brothers and sisters is they believe the devil made them do it. The same reason they feel any energetic phenomena is to be effectively met with punishment of any kind. Further the conditions persist because they are choosing the wrong remedy for the wrong reason. To have a future different from the past, we make a different choice in the present, we don't pass sentence on the past.

As to moral choices genuine morality is inherent and self evident in all creatures and it spans a range from simple chemical bond, to the instinct for self preservation, to the expression of gratitude. You need to create conditions instead of insisting on them, otherwise you are wasting your breath.

Every creature works.
You think you are special in some regard in comparison to all other life that you should be served and fed your meals? This is your contract with life not mine and needn't be any one else's.

What kind of storage system do you think you have devised that you can keep in reserve
the equation for every action there is an equal and complementary reaction?

I have had to make no sacrifices and in fact sacrificial giving is a contradiction in terms. So in those terms what you get reflects how you have applied yourself.

The laws of energetic exchange say that for every action there is an equal and complementary reaction, therefore the effort you put in is the work you get out.

You suggested that you made sacrifices you think to get something in return and I suggest the return you get is resentment.

More the human experience is a physical one and your abstract associations have no relevance to real things and is further reason the problems persist.

 

Wow!

There is no such thing as "The laws of energetic exchange". The physical universe is a closed loop system. The laws of human bullshit is infinite and is not. Specifically the rule you are quoting is the law of "conservation of momentum" which falls under the laws of "conservation of energy". You continue to insist this fringe premise has some meaningful purpose despite the fact that it is completely disconnected and ridiculous even as an example or defacto representation, which leaves me little room to carry on a constructive on topic debate with you.

Seriously man, I do not want to come off offensive but the same goes for the rest of your arguments.

You seem to have a nice collection of words that you do not understand the proper distinctions or their relationsips to other words, or how to properly apply or communicate them to the subjects being discussed, and because your initial posts were somewhat vague and appearing on point, unfortunately I did not pick up on that until I was well into this exchange with you.

after twice explaining it to you:

you still dont get it, proof that everything I said, even after a detailed explanation, still winged right over your head.


Frankly, thanks, but I do not want to continue sorting out all your ever expanding exponentially growing basket of conflated oxymorons and strawmen that you insist on presenting while failing to recognize how grossly nonsequitur and inapplicable they are. I simply do not have the patience for it, sorry.



However, I welcome anyone who has a background or has studied the development of legal systems and or governments and understands in context usage of words to engage me in justifying why any sane person would want and sign onto a universal democracy, or worse a republic, on any level beyond absolute necessity.

I believe I posed the "absolute necessity" question previously which is an optimum starting point on which to explore and grow a functional democracy that serves rather than enslaves its recipients as the present system has done.

 

Okay, let us ask you this.

If your previous learning had taught well do you think you would be lamenting your sacrificial condition? I don't think you have a practical leg to stand on and what is practical happens to be that which works, not your complaint.

My practical solution to government is to make government a technical functionary of the people not a litmus for direction.

 

look, understand this, you do not understand what you want to label "my complaint", therefore, neither are you qualified to assess it.

Now, for your version, I wont even hazard a guess how or what elements you imagine for this technical functionary, or how its charter would take shape, so I cannot comment on it without further information.

 

That you are being misrepresented in life. That you are the victim of anything.

As I stated earlier in the thread, we could develop detailed job descriptions and requirements for government positions we feel are important and allow those interested to apply for those positions to be chosen from an algorhythm developed to match qualification to requirement. Departments, civil engineering, (transportation, energy infrastructure, waste management), civil defense. (education, research and development, personal defense training, forestry, water, and land use practices.) I haven't brainstormed a lot on this but off the top of my head something to work with.

 

I dont know what country you are from but in america its already done that way, and stop trying to re-address my previous points, I am off of that with you. you had your opportunity and that boat sailed and is gone and you missed it then and continue to miss it now. So just drop it and move on.

So technical functionary then is status quo which is not working and that is what you want to submit as a basis for functional democracy?