What is a properly functioning democracy?

on that note we agree, and what is hands down the fail safe best way to achieve that end?

 

The simplest solution would be to require a tax increase immediately to sufficiently fund each existing and budgeted government spending program, and the same required for each new program.
Pay as you go and that would freeze the Federal debt.

Government spending increases will remain acceptable to voters and continue to grow as long as a majority feel they are getting more from government than they feel they are paying for.

A democracy cannot function properly unless the cost of running it impacts all members of it.

 

nope on that note we split.

the proper solution if we want to preserve individual "freedoms" [from government, (NOT expand upon what we have too much of already! "the freedom franchise OF government")] against the ever creeping democratic tyranny is INVOICES!

Thats right like any other business providing services. Certain things like traffic control air or ground absolutely require "order", and that would fall under the purview of "democracy" to vote on how that order is accomplished (as an example).

water? a service "invoice it" if they want it
fire" a service "invoice it" if they want it
school? a service "invoice it" if they want it

paying for your kids education at the expense of my own is not a benefit but a BURDEN!

you can set it up as a coop so there is minimal costs to the members.

property tax should be strictly limited only to the portion of what is above and beyond a typical home and levied as a luxury or wealth tax on a sliding scale upwards, NOT like it is now where people are required to pay taxes on the roof over their head that is an absolute necessity for survival and if you lose your job and cannot pay taxes they take it away from you! "Homes" should be 100% allodial, business properties should be taxable.

we no longer live in the stone age but use stone age methods of "taxation" that allows incredible fraud to occur that cannot be traced.

Invoicing can be done by computer nearly free if done online web page the cost would be pennies per year for the system and the people who USE THE SERVICES get charged not everyone indiscriminately.

democratic decisions outside what is absolutely necessary to insure people do not get killed should be advisory and not enforceable as a crime or quasi judicial/administrative penalty. in other words democracy ONLY in areas that we have no choice what so ever to prevent injury to each other should democracy rise t the level of a fine-able law, and then by grand jury indictment only for ANY CRIME and FULL JURY FOR ANY CIVIL as the IGNORED constitution states and has never been done to date!

 

Obviously true.

 

Ok lets start from the beginning then;

This thread is about a "proper" "democracy", and in a democracy 51% of whoever shows up for the vote or whatever group is chosen to do the voting can by that vote use FORCE upon 49% to do "whatever".

They jot the results of the vote on a piece of paper [your rights notwithstanding] then hand it to a man with a gun who FORCES YOU TO COMPLY.

Resistance is futile!

They might be lunatics or super dumb asses or on the take, (one is as bad as the other), who after granting themselves immunity from prosecution while in office, they may vote that since formaldehyde makes a great food preservative hence from that point forward it shall be used in the food supply.

Well guess what you are in the 49% who said HEY WAIT A MINUTE! I dont want to eat that shit! I have the right to eat what I want or not to eat it at all.

BUT the democracy has voted and you WILL eat it, like it or not.

So tell me then.

What are the benefits of having a democracy in the first place?

Would you really "CHOOSE" a form of government where 51% can vote what you can and cant eat? That they have power over you? What they say goes?

I think most of us understand the evils of a dictator with that kind of power, how about the evils of corporation with a single purpose? How is that different?

I see democracy as the means to destroy ALL individual rights bar none.....and those granted the power to make the decisions above the law and outside your ability to change it. (immunity)

So please justify all these assumed "benefits" of the latest religion people call "democracy".
(thats an open question btw to anyone who wants to get their feet wet :reddevil

 

scanning backwards it looks like we are far more in agreement than not. my bad

so I expect you may like my invoice suggestion as a solution. When you call up the tax board they do after all answer the phone "customer service"! LOL

 

Basically, that is true. You obviously have not read many or perhaps even any of my past posts, and seem to assume or accept the insinuation of the U.S.A. being a democracy, which it is not.

 

once upon a time it was all about probated "injury"/"damages". Today it has grown into the "presumed" and "appearance of injury".

Municipal and small claims courts are the largest and most atrocious examples of the courts "rubber stamp" business model. Its based on a set of presumptions (the stacked deck), set in statute that must be overcome prior to addressing the merits and substance of your complaint.

Summary judgments are then used by these courts and are based on prima facia showing, where more often than not no more than hearsay is required to obtain, that is a side step and due process violation that the courts have sanctioned and sold for expediency purposes that destroys the core of intent and re-writes the law to whatever/where ever they want it to go.

The statutory business model has become so convoluted the law is completely outside the reach of the average persons abilities to effectively execute their complaints.

Worse, the same people that created the contract judge its meaning and intent. In law it is a house of cards that in order to withstand attack must become more fraudulent as the system matures.

 

mea culpa

its a plutocratic oligarchy.

the "Just-Us" club.

however it is sold day in and day out as a democracy by themselves, in the schools, and in all the media sources, hence when on the street the first words out of peoples mouths........ democracy

 

Yes the organism develops acquired immunity. However being still born artifice in demanding compliance instead of being congruent with fluently adaptable nature. It never bears fruit but functions well as an expedient in containing conflict until , the impetus to humaneness has matured. Today's innovation becomes tomorrows prejudice unless we realize that a good teacher is one who at some point is no longer needed. The mistake contributing to the downfall of civil organization is the tendency to carve every thing in stone creating monuments and edifices instead of personal practices. The only meaningful defense against this dilemma that I can surmise is personal excellence and the living example of such.

 

When we are looking for direction we keep our eyes up, when we want to go somewhere we keep our eyes on the road.

 

In a broad sense, probably so.

Not so on the invoice suggestion, although if a number of people were to populate an area within the U.S. unanimously agreeing to implement such a system as an experiment, I would have no problem. The only problem is that much of State and local spending on many of the programs you might wish to opt out of receive Federal funding in addition to local or State funding.

In reality, I don't think there is a universally acceptable or correct answer to what is a properly functioning democracy, and while I think democracy is a necessity in the societal decision making process, democratic societies work best only when the members of each society are allowed more direct involvement and there are many to choose from if the one they are living within is found unsuitable. Freedom results from being able to exercise choices and small democratic societies allow the members to decide how, what, where, when and why choices should be limited.

 

I prefer to keep both my eyes and ears open scanning all directions as the need arises. If you're driving on the road, it pays to keep your eyes on the road, front and back, as well as both sides. At least that's how we were taught in defensive driving classes at work.

 

but your responses to suggested fully workable solutions support the status quo statism rather than individual freedom.

these people have transformed the government into their own "services brought to you by the business end of their guns" collective borg monopoly.

There is no opt out.

You can opt out of receiving their service but you cannot opt out of paying for them regardless!

The only way to end this extortion and tyranny is put it into perspective by invoicing those who actually use the system.

Why would I want to pay for your kids education at the expense of furthering my own? Forced to pay every year, or they take the house away! From my first paycheck to my dying breath! That is a damn expensive benefit dont you think? Especially if you were home schooled or private schooled or had tutors!!!

Seems to me the only way someone would want to retain that system is if they think they are getting something for nothing? Are they really? If so what?

How can you or anyone justify the taxing system with a straight face in the modern day of invoicing for services WANTED instead of services FORCED as it is now?

 

It's called, being able to understand complicated issues.

 

The system however is setup to insure it remains that way forever!

Wisconsin is what I am most familiar with so lets use them as an example, the rest of the states, the words may be changed to protect the guilty but they all sing the same tune in the end.

The very first statute!
CHAPTER 1 SOVEREIGNTY AND JURISDICTION OF THE STATE
1.01 State sovereignty and jurisdiction.

The sovereignty and jurisdiction of this state extend to all places within the boundaries declared in article II of the constitution, subject only to such rights of jurisdiction as have been or shall be acquired by the United States over any places therein; and the governor, and all subordinate officers of the state, shall maintain and defend its sovereignty and jurisdiction.

nothing to do with defending anyones rights but solely to defend and maintain their continued existence and power.

(1) In this section:
1.13(1)(a) (a) "Local governmental unit" has the meaning given in s. 1.12 (1) (a).
(b) "State agency" has the meaning given in s. 1.12 (1) (b).
(2) Each state agency, where applicable and consistent with other laws, is encouraged to design its programs, policies, infrastructure and investments of the agency to reflect a balance between the mission of the agency and the following local, comprehensive planning goals:


what becomes what most people think of as "law" is nothing more than different departments of the same corporation making rules and you would be shocked at the rules they make, I mean in one day I could pick out a lifetime of rights violation complaints that should be sued out and not even scratch the tip of the iceberg

The true terrorist today is in fact the government who influences the politics by coercion.

Nowhere will you find the obligation of state officers or agencies are sworn to protect the inhabitants within the boundaries they claim jurisdoction.

The problem is government itself, the courts rule the country by their "opinions".

 

Yes it is precisely because I understand not only complicated issues but also the government system that I have extended a standing invitation for you to make your specific objections, support and justify your statist status quo in debate.

I pay a tax to the government every year to support the schools through out my whole lifetime to educate your kids at the expense and detriment of my own education. That same money could have purchased several phd's for myself.

Explain;
how that tax is a benefit to me?
how that tax is a benefit to the increasing number of people who are homeschooling their children?

Lets start with an easy one.

 

That is driving a car. I was referring to finding our way in life.

 

This statement is utterly false. You pay taxes because you are compelled further you have no way to earmark "your expenditure"

Let's start with a reality check.

 

I don't have any.

You get to live in a country where not everybody is an uneducated idiot. No education means no doctors, no engineers. Important stuff doesn't get done. If you've ever driven over a bridge that didn't fall down, used a computer, or bought a home appliance, you benefited from somebody else's education.

You can opt out of the system. Go live on a desert island, where you have to do everything for yourself. You won't stay long.