What happens when you scrap the welfare state

No one is saying that government is perfect or even that it doesn't protect the corporations/act in their best interests. Obviously we're not in a good place and there is no disputing that inequality exists and the government doesn't act in the best interests of everyone.

Mostly, I'm taking issue with the idea that deregulating everything or loosening the laws is going to lead to improved conditions... mostly because historically, this has worsened things for everyone except the rich. That's what happened to New Zealand.

There is no such thing as a problem-free system-- obviously in a governed society it's going to be a lot easier to draw connections between government and social problems.

But it could be and would be a lot worse without regulations.

 

There's A LOT of stupid regulations, and stupid laws which the citizens would be much better without. The Drug War is a good example, regulating trees, not punishing certain companies, allowing monsanto to put toxic chemicals in our food.

What world are you living in? You know, every corporate abuse of power I mentioned, has been overlooked by your precious caring government.

Besides, what happens when a Drug company messed up and gave you a bad drug? They take the case FREE, because they KNOW the corporations are liable for a bad product. People should be very cautious when taking prescription drugs generally, but we should be free to decide if we want to ingest a drug. In this same way, corporations are liable to damage to property; Nestle who steals 15 ft of water from Lake Michigan every year only pays 200$ per year. Under my system, they would be liable for the theft of water, that belongs to everyone in that area.

I never promised a utopian society, only a way out of the disaster looming. I mention what's currently going on, because Libertarianism is a way out of it.

We want to end the drug war, allowing people to knowingly decide what they wish to put in their bodies. Thusly ending the Mexican drug cartels violent influence in Mexico, and on our border.

We also want to localize government, after shrinking the size and scope of the Federal Government; It would be much harder for corporations to bribe every county or state government. It's easy now, because they have a centralized authority to manipulate.

You fail to see the significance in consumerism. We decide to purchase items from companies. That is a voluntary trade, and is not some evil power structure. The problem is that Americans want things cheap, fast and high quality, and this outsources jobs to places that make these items cheap. A company trying to make a profit shouldn't be illegal, but if they're hurting someone, we would still have the Rule of Law. I don't support monopolies- weather in the private sector or in government. You seem to support government monopolies which FORCE you to buy their product, rather than companies that make products we want, and sell them cheap.

Free market capitalism makes prices go down; Without government involvement: college tuition, healthcare and more would drop prices drastically trying to compete. And Medical services would drop prices as well. The government has been involved in healthcare for 40 years, and prices have skyrocketed.

Corporations can go out of business at any time. If Hillshire Meat IE had uncooked chicken, not only would they be sued, but educated consumers should stop buying their product, and allow them to fail and go bankrupt. Liberals bitch and moan about these evil corporations, but you willingly support them.

And corporations aren't going to hurt people under their brand name, because people will stop buying their products and boycott them altogether. The only way corporations use force and change the law to their benefit, is government.

Minimum Wage today is shit. As I said, in the 1960's, we were getting paid over 30$ an hour in today's money, and that was due to the economic boom.

And what you're saying is totally untrue; taxes are high, regardless of what they "used to be." The average American is struggling to pay taxes. If the middle/working class opted out of the system, there would be no money left to milk.

As I said, logically it would go much further if it was focused locally, or in the hands of the consumer- government gives it to rich people and muslim radicals to start fake revolutions. You can stay in your matrix if you please, but, our country was Founded on Individual freedom and Basic Human Rights. Imo, the problem with Liberals is that you put government above the law, and assume they are helping.

I believe they are distributing our money between them and their buddies, and bleeding the public dry. Many prominent Liberals believe in total government control, including getting rid of people for fear of "over population"

Here is Liberal owner of CNN Ted Turner on 'population control'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DMgamzziQMM


I don't think you really support the force, but you support it by supporting Leftist who still believe there is a "lesser evil."

We are in a police state, controlled by the elite, and a lot of these problems were caused by Liberal and republican spending. It's all a big show, so enjoy it while it lasts...

 

Let me guess, but it's okay with you, cause most of it doesn't effect your way of life.

you must be a very complacent person to accept the murder of fellow citizens, in the name of taxing the rich more. No, you didn't say the government is perfect, but you act as though we should deal with whatever they do.

What you're saying is false. It never said it ONLY benefited the rich, it only effected people on welfare, who had to wait in line at a food bank. They were still eating, and the economy improved, which creates jobs.

Welfare only helps those who are not working or going to school, which creates dependance on government aid, which is pushed as another burden onto the taxpayer.

Even under Obama, plenty of loopholes and tax cuts are still geared toward the wealthy. Liberalism is nothing but an excuse to tax everyone more- they want free pre k, free insurance and, free food and drugs. Sound terrific, but it's nothing near free. This ALL costs the taxpayer money, and if I never have a kid, why should I pay for some other kids pre k?? If I never go to the doctor, why do I pay MORE for Obamacare, to take care of old people who are more expensive?? This alleged attempt to help people, seems to be a forced business deal, in which one has no choice, but to join Obamacare. Monopolies are supposed to be illegal in America!

I disagree. It is proven that lowering taxes and easing up on regulations creates jobs and encourages growth.

Look at what Sen. Rand Paul is doing with Detroit; they were about to go bankrupt. He created economic growth zones, which have severely low taxes. This will stimulate growth in Detroit, and help it rebuild itself. Even government knows that lower taxes and less regulation encourages growth. The problem is that are money has been going to the top 1% either from the banking cartels, defense industry, politicians or, all of the above. But they're certainly not going to stop this mess. They are getting paid to target the American people, spy on us, dig through our emails, kill innocent citizens and, disregard our Rule of Law in many cases, including yesterday when they declared the NSA "Constitutional."


Another lie, from the propaganda machine. But, you can believe as you please. But, since I've realized the government is the criminal racket which murders innocent people in the homeland and abroad, it's hard to imagine any of them as the type to fix this sorry state of affairs. But if you support a Criminal War monger like Obama, I suppose a police/nanny state is fine for you; But, it's not for Americans who value freedom, and, despise conformity to violent entities, which play God with the country and the world.

I don't think your mind is open enough to understand. You automatically assumed I was some redneck, because I believe in the 2nd Amendment Right to Bear arms. The government is not above the people, they are made to be representatives of the people; A job which they've failed miserably!

 

A welfare State is built over time, and cannot be undone overnight. In the U.S. a century of transformation into a welfare State will require much time to undo and make our government sound and becomes more difficult the longer it is put off.
Government has become the most encompassing bubble of all, and at some point it too will burst unless we begin to take action soon.

 

But the reason the growth, the literally physical drain on credit, occurs is because the population increases. The Malthusian alternative is all about the propensity to grow by debt for the industrial state of invention. This welfare state is the human resistance to the cruel class determining Malthusian doctrine. SO the government is assuming responsibility for the inefficient waste of failing the masses for improved standards in living. :smoking:

 

The governement's not sound due to the welfare state. Unbelievable! We better cut-off those welfare queens before they destroy the US economy.
The military industrial complex and multi-national sell out of the fed govt. is what is destroying the country.

 

Population growth IS indeed a major contributor to nearly every problem.
Rather than attempt to parse the remainder of your post in an attempt to interpret it clearly perhaps you would restate it more clearly as to what you wish to say?
At best, I come away with you being supportive of more government, and one which has power to rule over, and against the will of the people, in what IT decides to be in their best interest, regardless of how the people respond.

 

I too find it hard to discuss politics with Liberals as the basic argument is that the rich are controlling the government so we need more government to resolve the problem.

 

You need the military-industrial complex, to keep up the Liberal entitlement spending, so don't even begin to place blame.

The two go hand-in-hand. Without fiat dollars, Americans would have to live within their means, and, dare I say it; perhaps even wait in line for their food-- it's not like they have JOBS or anything else to do anyway...

 

You're just blowing smoke; These statements have no substance behind them.

Typical Liberal of you, to use the "better standard of living" card; But, is it true?

Perhaps for those who have no ambition, drive or, effort to contribute. But, if someone did that in Nature, they would most certainly starve and die. In a civilized and 'free' society, we allow people to live as they please. If someone wants to be an alcoholic bum, they can do that. But why should it be at the taxpayers expense?

The fact of the matter is, that with or without government, people would not be starving, there would not be mass hysteria and financial crisis- these are things caused by government, so it makes no logical sense why Liberals think government will fix it.


Moreover, if you support welfare and healthcare, it really only helps poor people, and the elite companies who run them. You are forcing people to pay these others, who contribute nothing, yet taxes come from the back of hard-working Americans who are struggling just to get by today.

Why should the Middle Class's standard of living decrease, because the very rich and jobless are greedy? If someone is jobless, but paying rent, obviously they have some income. Anyway, churches and charities give out tons of good food daily- as I said, NO one would starve.

The ploblem isn't just military spending, it's also the Liberal spending, and the Liberal idea that government can save us, while they shred the last of our Rights and freedoms, in the name of security and better living.

Yet, we're being spied on, executed by our government, restricted on free speech and, we have an Orwellian government which works for bribes, against the Constitution and our principles. The Liberal Hero Obama is a prime example of these failures...

 

We're not living 'in nature'. If we were, then there would be no private property. There would be no pollution rendering huge pieces of land utterly worthless. There would be no industries being built, because there would be no social pressure to buy cars and homes and go shopping. We would all be a lot stronger and smarter and we wouldn't need to depend on the system that raised us.

You can't just 'live as you please' in ANY society... practically all of your wants and a lot of your needs are defined by advertising and social pressure and conformity. Do you seriously think that if I wanted to, I could just get myself a plot of land and build my own farm? That I could do this without money? How do you expect someone who makes no money to ever be able to afford living as they please? Why would someone who has a lot of money NOT simply buy up all of the land and charge people to live on it?

People aren't alcoholics because they're lazy, they're alcoholics because they can't get ahead and they have no hope... the whole 'people deserve to be poor' myth is at least 400 years old, and it's been used by the rich to make poor people accept their situation so that they'll blame themselves instead of the people who are truly responsible.

 

Ill get back to you in a little bit.

But, I love how you ignore all the truths about Obama and the current government, and jumps right to an example I was giving, and miscontrue it to your benefit.

It just wouldn't be HipForums without passive-aggressive Liberalism!

 

Some interesting facts for you to consider:

1. America is not the only country in the world.
2. Some people come from other countries.
3. Those countries also have government/political systems.
4. Not everyone who identifies as left-leaning voted for Obama or likes Obama.
5. You don't need to bring up Obama in every single reply.

Thank you.

 

No shit, Sherlock.

But, you do support Obama, and idc if you're American or not, you've vocally supported the US Government and Mr Obama, so you should be aware about the controversy surrounding his presidency..

And no, not every leftist supports Obama, but many support his unconstitutionality like disarmament. They also support stupid things, like taxpayer-funded pre K, which is just a bigger waste of money.

On top of that, Leftists always support the status quo, cause objective #1 for Liberals is more government.

You also failed to defend the Liberal owner of CNN, Ted Turner, who supports De-population.

The Liberal agenda is no different than the elites.

I don't bring up Obama every post, but I'm not going to bite my tongue, as Liberals here, kiss his ass. He's no a lesser evil, he's not "fixing Bushes mistakes;" He's brought fuck up's and failures to an all-time low!

 

If you think Pre-K is a waste--you're wrong. Dead wrong.

Leftists always support the status QUO. Are you serious? You are referring to conservatism.

The liberal agenda is no different than the elites. Oh, brother!

Obama is the same as ALL THE REST OF THEM. No better, no worse. I've seen 'em all from Roosevelt to Obama. Oh right. he IS black.

 

Well, liberals are mostly dupes, so they see themselves being anti-status quo, yet everything they champion seems to play into more government, more control, more laws, more taxation, more regulation of free speech, more police state, less freedoms, etc. Pretty much whatever is in line with the whole NWO agenda. Simply put, liberalism equates to more government intervention in all aspects of a person's private life. That is not what I call freedom or anything that any sentient, individualistic person would be in support of. Liberalism masquerades itself around tolerance and caring about others, but when implemented by government, nothing could be further from the truth. It's all about bureaucracy and control. Liberalism = more and more government, and more and more government eventually = tyranny.

 

Yes, a dupe, un-sentient, non-individualistic person such as myself has no idea about much of anything, so you boys win. I'm honored to be in the presence of such brilliance. Yes, conservatives haven't wanted to be or actually are the controlling types. That's certainly been apparent for the last 30 years or so. Very benign, giving human beings.

Oh by the way, how long in time will the present system of capitalism last??

 

Stop.

As soon as someone disagree with you, you call them a Liberal, and then go on and on about random unrelated shit. You keep changing the topic and then tell yourself you've won. If someone responds to your comment, it doesn't matter, because you'll just change the topic again. It means that no one can ever reach you about anything, ever.

You bring up Obama in at least 90% of your posts.

 

Conservatism= 1-The disposition in politics or culture to maintain the existing order and to resist or oppose change or innovation. 2-Tending to favor the preservation of the existing order and to regard change with distrust.

Liberalism=1-Having, expressing or following views or policies that favor the freedom of individuals to act to act or express themselves in a manner of their own choosing. 2-Tolerant of the ideas or behavior of others. 3-Permissible or appropriate for a FREE MAN.
4-Unrestrained.

That is all.

 

Keep stating your opinion over and over... eventually it's going to magically turn into the truth.