What happened to the Trump supporters around here?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by MeAgain, Apr 15, 2025.

  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Completely wrong.
    First there are honest politicians.
    Second Ron Paul wasn't the answer and there were several alternatives to Trump.
    Third as you favor a “benevolent dictator” you are not for a Democratic Republic and therefore you do not support the Constitution or free men and women.
    Fourth the voting public in the last election proved they are ignorant, racist, misogynist, and just plain gullible. (They voted for a sexual predator, a felon, and a guy who wins his own golf tournaments just becasue they believed his lies.
    Fifth the voting public in the last election didn't like hearing the truth, they much preferred lies and violence.
    Sixth the "leftists" have always supported the working class and continue to do so.
    Try reading history some time.
    A few Liberal accomplishments:
    The Constitution.
    Social Security.
    Child Labor laws.
    Five day work week.
    Civil Rights Act.
    Freedom of speech.
    Freedom of the Press.
    Freedom of Religion.

    On and on.
     
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  2. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Au contraire.
    MAGA is a cult, not a logical response to any perceived political ills.

    It has a charismatic leader who spews lies, hatred, and violent rhetoric to cheering crowds, the very crowds who would not put up with such behavior by anyone in the opposing political spectrum.

    He can do no wrong.
    Adultery, fraud, outright lies, ignorance (the colonials took over British airfields), conflicts of interest, stealing secret records, secret meetings with our enemies, mocking our war heroes, etc.

    The voting public didn't "muster up an immune response to try to drive out, or at least back, the infection and decay that has taken hold over much of it". They succumbed to the infection in mass. They became a festering boil on the national character and showed the hidden decay of the traditional values of the nation.

    Immune response my -ss.
    MAGA is the disease.
     
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  3. Bocci

    Bocci Members

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    Hmmm. It appears as though encountering someone who is willing and able to express a differing perspective from your own really raises your ire. But then, we knew that from previous interactions.

    Please refrain from questioning my support for our constitution. I have taken the oath to uphold and defend the constitution several times in my life and I am a man of my word.

    My reference to a “benevolent dictator” was borrowed from Plato’s concept of the “philosopher king”. If you had read closely, you may have noticed that I referred to said dictator as “ever elusive”. It is a theoretical possibility. Please try to keep in mind, one can learn and entertain and even discuss ideas without adopting them as their own or even an end goal.
     
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  4. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    It doesn't raise my ire, it causes me to question their perspective.

    I'm glad you support the Constitution.
    I had wondered as you did state: "Until the ever-elusive “benevolent dictator” captures the hearts of the masses as well as the reigns of power, we are destined to be ruled by corrupt liars."
    It seemed to me that you were positing only two possible courses for the government of the United States. One, a benevolent dictatorship or two, some sort of corrupt authority.
    Both contrary to the Constitution.

    So how do you feel about Trump's form of governance?
    Is he supporting the Constitution?
     
  5. Bocci

    Bocci Members

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    I don’t know if his actions support the constitution or not. For now, I’m waiting for more information like, say, the USSC to weigh in on the various cases that come before it about his actions.

    It does seem as though he’s pushing/probing and testing the limits of executive authority from what I can tell. I’m not alarmed by this, I think, because I take the long view. I look at it sort of like a pendulum. I expect he (or whoever occupies the office) to seek power beyond their constitutional authority because it is the type of position that would only attract personalities that would do so. Then I expect, as has happened in the past and will happen again, they other branches will take action to curtail such after the bounds have been clearly pushed to far. Similarly, again I would argue as has happened in the past, I expect the other branches, at some point, to overstep the constitutional bounds placed upon them and the offsetting branches to counter them as well.

    I look at this as a dynamic system with temporary Nash equilibria.
     
  6. Bocci

    Bocci Members

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    It may well be a cult. I don’t know nor care. Whether it is or not does not negate the possibility of my immune response analogy also being reasonably accurate.

    Social movements don’t happen in a vacuum. There were an almost innumerable series of actions and events that got us to this point. Pointing to a cult of personality is, at best, ridiculously simplistic.
     
  7. Toker

    Toker Lifetime Supporter

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    I keep thinking we are witnessing the fall of the American empire, too.

    Things like the way Trump lives, the way Diddy parties, and the way the info sphere is saturated with lies, is not far off from Germany in the 20s or Rome before the fall.

    The outward decadence of a society living beyond its means, losing its sense of morality and fairness. Finding scapegoats, relying on ethnic tropes to divide the masses.

    Then of course electing, yes democratically someone who wants to be a dictator on day one. A narcissistic dictator who demands loyalty to himself over the country or party.

    When so few have so much and have seemingly unlimited power, the results are usually catastrophic. While the elite enrich themselves further, the poor are left helpless.

    That's where the scapegoats come in. Immigrants, gays/trans, even friends like neighboring countries are suddenly no longer friends.

    Of course the worst is yet to come in this current scenario. But you can bet it ain't gonna be over until the fat pumpkin sings or dies.
     
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  8. Twogigahz

    Twogigahz Senior Member

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    Would one lightning strike on the 3rd tee at Mara Largo be so much to ask for? I'll promise to be a better man....
     
  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    well he has defied the Supreme Court, led an attempted coup, is attempted to void birthright citizenship, he has targeted specific law firms, abused power by pardoning 1,500 convicted felons that participated in his coup attempt, closed the border to asylum seekers, violated the separation of powers when he issued a 25 percent steel tariff under Section 232 of the Trade Expansion Act, etc. etc.; the list is long.

    Yet the Republicans in the House and Senate are not curtailing his actions and the Supreme Court is also doing nothing to enforce its ruling.

    You say you support the Constitution yet you aren't alarmed.
    What would he have to do for you to get concerned?
    Declare Congress null and void?
     
  10. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Cults are social movements and they form as a result of a series of innumerable actions and events.
     
  11. Bocci

    Bocci Members

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    I wonder if the folks he upsets so much give him too much credit. I see him as just the current figurehead of a movement that has been building for quite some time. His particular type of carnival-barkeresque behavior may have helped him win the job, and for all I know may well make him more effective at it. But if he had not appeared on the scene to take it, the universe would still have filled that slot with someone.

    Furthermore, as we saw in the last couple years of Biden, the head executive does not run the show and need not even be coherent much of the time. There is a cadre of people and interests steering the ship of state. The captain could even be the most able seaman to have ever sailed the seas but the ship would sail the course it is on with or without him.
     
  12. Bocci

    Bocci Members

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    Were the other side of the political spectrum completely innocent of any of these behaviors, I might be concerned. But I’ve lived long enough and seen enough to know that “power corrupts”. Not only that, but it also holds the strongest attraction for the corrupt and corruptible.

    It seems to me as though you see your “side” as being on the side of the saints and, conversely, the others’ on that of evil. My life’s observation has led me to believe that no one is on the side of the saints and evil is “to he who thinks ill of it.”
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2025
  13. Toker

    Toker Lifetime Supporter

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    Funny cause I was gonna say I'd prefer a philosopher king, but then again, there's some real fucked up philosophies going around these days. Contagious apparently.

    There's the Diddy philosophy; if it moves fuck it.
    The MAGA whatever
    The Escape earth mindset
    The one with the most expensive, biggest toys wins some contest.
    Every screwed up religion that owns a building and/or worships some idol. (See MAGA above)
    Etc.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2025
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  14. MojoToto

    MojoToto Members

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    If anyone cares to notice the entire planet is ill and I cannot see how GenZ or any who follow will cure it. ( Gen Z may be the last of us as the elite live happily ever after feeding off our bones and being served by the tech that replaces the need for any of the common people except as playthings) Welcome to the Machine. Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose. We are becoming virtual reality. We have SkyNet, we are plugged into the matrix. Big Brother doesnt even compare to the reality of our Brave New World - the temperature is Fahrenheit 451 - We are strangers in a strange land ruled by The Foundation - The mirror is black - The body snatchers didnt invade they just invite us into the Apple Stores et al to make sure we stay plugged in - The new empire is the globals so try bringing down that enemy at our gates. The hydra has a helluva lot more than 7 heads. We queue up to buy into our own demise. The rich get richer and the poor become utterly redundant as there is no need for them to fill jobs that dont exist. Soylent Green anyone? Make Anything Great Again? That ship has sailed and we aint passengers or even crew. End of Days in the Dark City - When the Music's Over Turn out the lights - Vanishing Point - as we all Walk in Line ( aka Queue) to pay too much money for the next best thing that just eats your soul. The Lunatics Have indeed taken over the Asylum and it is all just a Ball of Confusion and illusion. Welcome to Utopia - meet the new boss same as the old boss but armed with smart tech to control the devolving masses - Are we not Men? We are Devo.
     
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  15. Bocci

    Bocci Members

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    There have always been fucked up philosophies going around. I’ve probably read too much history to worry about whatever fucked up ones there are now. They come and go. People live and die by them. Commit atrocities and create beauty because of them. You could say that they do seem to help to pass the time.
     
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  16. Bocci

    Bocci Members

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    Channeling George Carlin tonight are we?
     
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  17. Bocci

    Bocci Members

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    For some reason I kinda wish you had worked a dead milkmen and a Vonnegut reference in there. Not sure why.
     
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  18. MojoToto

    MojoToto Members

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    The truth is in the fiction. Franz Kafka, George Orwell, Aldous Huxley, Isaac Asimov, and any episode of Black Mirror shine many lights much brighter and closer to the truth than any of the Five Estates. The politics of fear and the politics of confusion along with smoke and mirrors and the dis-information super highway is turning us all into Helen Kellers. Don Quiyote has a better chance of catching his dragons than we have of smoting ours. Slavery has never gone away peeps actually queue up to buy their own shackles. We are built in obscelesence and we pay good money for it. We get to destroy ourselves at a faster and faster rate. Clever.
     
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  19. MojoToto

    MojoToto Members

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    Vonnegut - Breakfast of Champions featuring the bad chemicals
     
  20. Toker

    Toker Lifetime Supporter

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    Great RANT! I bow to the master of popular Scifi titles. :smile: Dystopia is now.
    Hard to believe but Trump is the embodiment of Big Brother. So much Scifi is now real.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2025

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