What draws you to libertarianism?

Interested in what is appealing about it to you.

 

The fact that it has some fresh ideas and it's a 3 rd party that isn't R's or D's, well tries not to be. There is no actual on file libertarian party, they piggyback on the Republican label.


But I suspect that their popular purely because of hipster culture and mindset, rather than critical thinking and pragmatism.


I like a lot of libertarian ideas at a singular level, but when you talk to one, their level of critical thinking skills and therefore the balance of logical though and discussion vs. The emotional spectrum throws progress of this party out of wack and in practice their ideas at a large scale break down.


They're close, but no cigar.

 

Common sense does it for me.

 

There is a national Libertarian party in the US - http://www.lp.org/

 

I think to just speak very quickly and vaguely that on a general basis people are attracted to the idea that are liberal on social issues and conservative on fiscal issues.

 

Reason.

 

I like a lot of the policies, but there is nothing that would protect the environment and I think that is extremely important.

 

{rolls eyes}

 

Personally I would've liked to have seen one of your more acerbic replies here.

 

LOL, I've been off my game lately, getting lazy.

 

What libertarianism? (it runs from extreme left to extreme right)

If it is the most popular form in the US – right wing libertarianism, the question for me would be what draws anyone to it - seeing as its ideas are rubbish if not dangerous and no one that supports it seems able to defend it.

I know that I bang on about this but it’s important because so many Americans seem to have fallen for this con game and its propaganda machine.

If looking back to 19th century economic thinking, 20th century Social Darwinism and robber baron romanticism is what you call ‘fresh’.

This is the ultimate cop out argument, used in the sense of - its common sense so no actual defence of the idea is necessary – but it was once just common sense among many that black people were inferior beings and so it was alright to enslave them.

As the poster indicates this statement is basically just a slogan not a real argument that can stand up to even the smallest amount of scrutiny.

Right wing libertarian thinking sees both economic and social issues from a right wing libertarian viewpoint which is on the far right of political thinking.

Implying that they are in any way ‘liberal’ as in left wing in thinking is a gross misrepresentation.

 

You could justifiably say the same exact thing about what draws you yourself to common everyday leftism: common sense. As YOU feel in your own personal opinion that it makes the most sense to you. Me, I was just answering the OP's question with a short one-liner.

 

6-eyes

The views I have seem to make sense only because they seem to be able to stand up to criticism, if they didn’t I’d change them, the problem with right wing libertarianism is that it doesn’t seem to stand up to criticism very well at all - but some people still believe in it because they think it makes ‘common sense’.

It’s a herd argument aimed at people that want to fit in but don’t necessarily want to think about what they’ve been told to agree with – this it is the view that is most commonly held to make sense and if you want to fit in you will believe it too -

I mean do the views you see as making common sense stand up to criticism?

 

Alright, I'll be more specific and less vague. I'm not a full blown libertarian, but many of the ideas appeal to me because:
-I'm content with what I have, and I don't have an envy/jealousy complex over those who are more privileged than I.
-I personally enjoy helping people who need it, but I don't let my sympathy stand in the way of my logic and reasoning skills.
-I think people are responsible and should be held accountable for their own actions; the blame game is the childish loser's way out.
-I think policies that only privilege certain people and discriminate others through race/gender/ethnicity selection is wrong.
-I believe the right of self defense.
-I hate jingoism
-Competition makes the world go 'round.
-I hate it when someone who has no experience in my line of work, tells me how to do my job.

I tend to incorporate these arguments to combat these criticisms against my beliefs.

 

6 eyes

Sorry these are still extremely vague. I mean for a start your first point seems to contradict your fourth and others really need clarification

Privilege - A special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group

But later your fourth point claims that you think such privilege is wrong how can you say you have nothing against people being privileged but you think being privileged is wrong?

Meaning what?

For example I’ve had right wing libertarians here who’ve said similar but when examined their views seem based on flawed Social Darwinist ideas – one said they’d wish for a society where people who’d got into hardship through no fault of their own should be allowed to die from want.

However a lot of things in life are beyond an individual’s control and therefore they cannot take individual responsible for them.

For example on a fundamental level a person cannot choice to whom they are born and that can have the greatest effect on a person’s life - giving someone advantages or disadvantages that can affect their whole lives and their possibility of having success or failure.

What about policies that advantage wealth over the majority, like tax regimes that favour wealth, or deregulation that advantages corporations, or systems that assist the possibility of exploitation, as right wing libertarian ideas often seem to promote?

Fine I think that only extreme pacifists would disagree with you - but is this code for the whole gun issue thing as it has been in the past? I mean it’s been argued that the mentality that allows and promotes easy access to firearms in the US has a detrimental effect on US society.

Meaning what exactly? I mean I think very few people would say they that really loved jingoism (even those that were jingoistic)

Is this a free market thing?

And the problem is that there never has been and never could be equal and fair ‘competition’ just as there never has been and never could be a ‘free market’.

As I say to me these ‘arguments’ seem to raise more questions than they answer and some seem similar to things that haven’t stood up to criticism in the past.

But as bullet points for further discussion they are great start so I look forward to your replies and clarifications.

 

I think what initially attracts a lot of people is the drug policy. Drug users of all walks of life, who are otherwise antipolitical, take notice to a party that wishes to decriminalize drugs. This is a blessing and a curse in the way that it brings people over but it can be an obstacle when it comes to mainstream success.

My initial attraction was the way Libertarian politicians often set aside their personal beliefs for the sake of the common good. Much in the same way I am personally against things like abortion, while being politically pro-choice. They understand that just because you personally believe one thing....doesn't mean the government should have the right to force everyone else to live the same way. Enforcing morality is a fools game.

 

I was drawn to it because the philosophy espouses liberty. I joined the Libertarian Party for a time, but, like every other political entity the people running it think you need to do things their way, which kind of goes against the whole philosophy of it. After I quit supporting it, I realized I was largely on the anarchist side of that philosophy, and am more comfortable there.

 

God does not give us liberty in any marketable strategy. All that exists beyond economics. And alas liberty is Godless with respect to both personal and non-personal freedom of choice. Freedom of choice must now decide if it is theist or anti-theist with respect to the existence of Religion.

 

Letlovin

But as has been pointed out a number of times the right wing libertarian ideas on drugs seem based on individual rights and free market principles. Drugs would be legalised and unregulated so they would be open to anyone to take, make or sell within the bounds of a capitalistic free market. And along with right wing libertarian philosophy about individual responsibility there would be no public programmes of education or treatment (except for those that could afford it) to counter the market.

Many on the left also wish for decriminalization but they want a drugs polices that are good for society and the individual. They don’t think probation works but neither do they want drugs to become just another unregulated profit making product in a consumerist market. They also base their views on personal freedom but they also see drugs from a social and healthcare standpoint, with a emphasis on education, treatment, and assistance.

But as has been shown many of the ideas promoted by right wing libertarians would be detrimental to the common good, while seemingly serving the interests of wealth.

But that not an exclusive viewpoint to right wing libertarians – I’m a leftie and my viewpoint is similar.

 

Bal,

The Libertarian ideas on drugs that you are referring to are individual opinions. Most Libertarians that I know wish for an end to the drug war and shift policy towards education and treatment. Much like you claim for those of the left.

I disagree with your next point.

I agree with your final point. However the actual politicians on the left aren't a good example. The percentage of Libertarians willing to vote against their personal beliefs in the name of Liberty for all vastly outweighs your lefty commrads. It's part of the very fiber of the Libertarian movement. Whereas it's not very common amongst American Democrats.

However, none of this is following the subject of the thread, and is quickly being turned into yet another aimless us vs them circle jerk. Maybe we could find a mod to keep people on track?