What do you believe in...

The term "extremism" is difficult. I think there can be lots of extremists outside organized religion. I guess you could consider Jesus and Mohammed as "extremists' in one sense of the word, in insisting on radical, uncompromising change in the religious status quo. Cults and sects typically begin as loosely organized groupings around a leader, and we don't generally think of them at that stage as "organized religion". And there can be "lone wolf" fanatics, as well. I guess I was thinking of the development of Christianity, from Jesus' disciples and the informal groupings of Nazarenes and Ebionites in the first century to the Church of the fourth century and afterwards. The persecutions of heretics began when the Church felt powerful enough to move against the oppostion. Extremism, in this sense, involves violence and intolerance.

 

I believe if you look at the exact quote by peacechicka1 you'll find that it says that organized religion can lead to extremism. No one ever said anything about organized religion dictating the existence of extremism.

One thing that can be truthfully said about organized religion however: dependency on it precludes the possibility of an authentic relationship with spirit, which can never be confined by the structural framework inherent in any given organized religion.

Travis

 

That is true as well.

I basically concede my post questioning peachchicka's comments pertaining to extremism and organized religion.

 

Wow, I'm impressed. Excercising the humility necessary to concede a position during a debate/argument is rare in real life and almost unheard of during internet-based exchanges. Nice job.

Travis

 

I was raised christian and then went satanist in high school. Half way through hig school I decided to be agnostic but I didn't really care cause I was always on drugs. Then I became buddhist for a while and realozed its not for me. Now I'm agnostic again. There is a higher power/powers but not that of orginized religion in my opinion.

 

Sorry I have missed this debate, sadly, but I have been busy...

Well, what I mean, to clear things up, about "organized religion" and "extremism", is you simply dont go around knocking on doors and putting a bible, torah, quran, whatever in someone's face. It's just rude for one, and very aggitating for 2. You dont raid into the streets saying "anyone who doesnt accept islam will die." That's just taking your beliefs too far. I have NO problem with people believing in a religion at all, I just don't think that it is morally right to proclaim one religion should be supreme over all, or shoving it down people's throats, or anything along those lines.

If they live peacefully with my decision to believe in God, and I respect them as well, then it should NEVER matter what any one believes. I am tolerant with all beliefs AS long as the followers don't try to kill me, burn my house down, or anything EXTREME like that. That's just crazy to do.

And you asked me, Hryhorii, why I don't consider myself a Christian ( not to bring old things up)...

Well, it is basically my personal choice, and I dont expect anybody to understand at all. I just dont like being labelled a Christian because people, for the most part perhaps, think of me a church-going, bible thumping, goodygoody. Which I am NOT at all. I am not perfect whatsoever, lol. But that could be the closest explanation as to why I dont consider myself a Christian, take it or leave. =)


Peace

 

Ever thought about checking out shamanism? It's not satanist, but it does circumvent the rigid dogmatism of organized Christianity. It's also not Buddhist, but like Buddhism it recognizes the omnipresent nature of spirit/tao/love/consciousness, which it seems to me you may be alluding to in your final statement.

Not to mention the fact that some branches of shamanism incorporate the use of psychotropic drugs for the purposes of inducing higher states of consciousness.

There's a path for everyone I say.

Travis

 

I do not think any Christian should claim this anyways. I still do not understand though. Oh well...

 

yeah oh well, like i said i dont expect anybody to understand, just live & let live =) Peace bro

 

I believe that everyone should follow their own path at all times to avoid regrets.

 

indeed gesome.

 

misfeed

 

lakota traditons

 

I believe in God. I believe God is a name for the omni-transcendent unity, the primal quality, of all things, therefore, no one can define God. EVERY definition is incomplete in comparison to the reality.

I believe the measure of one's development, of one's humanity, is directly evident in their primal (spiritual, intellectual, existential?) relationship to "God." What one thinks "God" is, what one understands, how one behaves, who one IS in relationship to the divine, all of these things are what makes one fully human.

I believe Jesus was fully human. An extraordinary Rabbi who sacrificed everything he had in order to bring humanity at least one step (or as many steps as one would take) closer to realizing the essence and nature of "God."

Of course, if God transcends all "things" then God transcends Jesus. I respect, admire and love the man as much as anyone, and I firmly believe Jesus is just as much an incarnation of God as any other human being, but I have to believe "God" is more than even Jesus' definition. Christianity is a great thing, but I believe there is more than all that is defined by Christian belief. Who knows?

I also live in awe of nature. I have no clue how to create anything as good as nature. Whatever entity or process has brought all of this into being is beyond me and my humble talents.

I believe every religion offers great wisdom to anyone who would genuinely love to know it. I also believe every religion can be, and has been, unfortunately, abused by those who fear more than they love.

With absolute sincerity of purpose, I have lived with and studied Christianity, Buddhism, Rastafarianism, Hinduism, and (with somewhat less direct experience) Islam. I spent a few teenage years as a deeply mired agnostic and once, for reasons I no longer remember, even thought I may be an Atheist. I still have a deep respect and admiration for each of these traditions, though, personally, I would have to tune out far too much to really accept Atheism at face value.

I am now deeply involved in the study and practice of Judaism. From the most primal level to the most abstract, it is far more than I thought any "religion" could be.

I have read and studied the every word of the Torah several times, with a Rabbi. I have also read and studied the Gospels (especially Matthew), The Bhagavad Gita, The Ramayana, The Dhammapada, the Tao Te Ching and numerous inspired writings by such Mystics as Abraham Joshua Heschel, Alan Watts, Maimonides, J. Krishnamurti, Adin Steinsaltz, William Sloan Coffin, and Rabbi M. M. Schneerson.

In my humble opinion, no one has captured the entirety of the divine in a single book, but there is extraordinary insight available to anyone who seeks it.

Peace and Love