What conservatives mean by “traditional family.”

That's the problem with this country, the do it yourself attitude has almost ceased to exist, and it's even worse in western Europe. No one wants to take responsibilty for themself anymore or do the hard manual jobs.

And frankly Thomas Jefferson is a horrible example to have, he would be the ultimate conservative in the modern sense, he would be appauled at any kind of government welfare program, or any kind of government program and was a supporter of laissez-faire economics, though his actions during his presidency went against alot of his own beliefs.

And I think these days a traditional family is just one where the parents are not divorced, at least in my opinion.

 

fine. Then we need to change the words we're using.

Not all republicans are conservative and not all democrats are liberal. Agreed?

We need to agree on basic terminology, or else debate is pointless.

 

What is just for you isn't just for me but we are forced to follow these laws anyways for the greater good of society.

My business profits more if it is unregulated, why should I be forced to follow regulations? answer for the same reason we pay taxes.

Why not?

 

on most laws, i'd agree...but nto all

Um, keeping business honest: i.e. not being allowed to put a label for food on rat poison, or forcing businesses to disclose all dangers of a job to an employee is far different than taking a larger share of someones pay.

If i say people should give up their right to be free from illegal search and seizure because we can then better protect them, would you still agree with your statement?

 

I totally agree, and women's rights are going down the shitter on a daily basis now too.

 

well, you may agree with what you think it means. However, i dont think TJ would agree that's what he meant. So you probably don't want to quote him wrongly.

 

I'm not going to turn into IronGoth here, but it's not just women's rights that are being thrown down the shitter, honey.

Every person, every right, is being overlooked nowdays, for whatever reasons. Let's fight for equality of all, not just focus on one gender, one ethnicity, etc. This is a struggle for every man and woman today.

 

this is probably the best thing ANYONE has said in this thread.

 

Yeah, especially women's rights.

That's for you apologists who insist on defending the subtle oppression of women.

 

Neither you or I know what he meant so you believe what you like and I shall do the same.

 

Simply you are wrong.

He would be disgusted at what modern conservatives are doing.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
-- Thomas Jefferson

 

The founding fathers weren't conservatives they were classical liberals.

 

i provided you several quotes that showed he was anti welfare....yet you think on some vague quote, he might have actually wanted it.

 

Welfare is a form of charity. I don't remember how you equated that quote with welfare because I never did.

Times were different. Would he think the same today? I doubt it since he was a strong supporter of equality, equity, and progress.

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government." Thomas Jefferson


You can interpret this in many ways. I like my way.

 

Don't feel bad, Inquiring-Mind.

The Conservatives have interpreted Jesus as saying, "Give to the rich! Blessed are the Warmakers! The Aggressive Shall Inherit The Earth!...etc...etc...etc..."

They have a tendency to hijack obvious LIBERAL historical figures and skew them somehow as "Conservative".

Think about how they now make MLK Jr. some nicely little packaged Conservative version of a "good guy" who wanted no trouble...when in reality he was PASSIONATE and OUTSPOKEN about injustice, ANTI-WAR, & a PEACE LOVER! Everything they hate.

 

I don't hold my fucking hand out. I've never taken a penny of governmet money for any reason. My dh can support OUR family, but unlike MOST conservatives, I can see that there are people who are not as fortunate as we are.


There are a large number of people who CANNOT have the "Family Values" that the Conservatives are always blabbing on about, because they can't afford it. MY family can, but we are the exception, not the rule.

Megara, you are fucking clueless You have no wife, you have no children, you have no womyn, you have NO responsibilities beyond yourself (and I suspect your mommy and daddy probably support you) and yet, you dis people who have a HELL of a lot more responsibility for thier lives and for the lives of others than you do.

Get a womyn and a family and TRY to support them, pay for health care, feed them, AND have your wife stay home and raise them AND send a few to college at the same time (like my dh and I are doing) and maybe we'll start listening to your clueless ideas of how womyn and families should behave.

I'm fucking pissed off now. Hold my hand out? Pfffffft, you have NO fucking idea how most real adults have to live.

 

AND, just what the fuck does putting up CHRISTMAS decorations and the Boy Scouts have to do with raising FAMILIES? Jeez. GET A FREAKIN FAMILY of your own, and see how hard it is, and maybe you'll have an idea what it takes to take care of one.

Christmas decorations, YOU have the right to put a Baby Jesus with a lightbulb in his head on your own front lawn. What does THAT have to do with people's abiliites to RAISE, SUPPORT, PROVIDE HEALTH CARE FOR, AND TAKE CARE OF THEIR CHILDREN.

God, I can't stand NeoCon ideas of what "family" means. Libertine and HippyFreek and I and many others KNOW what it takes. And it has nothing to do with the freakin Boy Scouts, which, if you didn't know, are LEGAL. But, have nothing to do with raising families.

I was finished with college, owned a house, married to the man I have now been married to for 20 years and expecting our first child AND in grad school when I was only a year older than your age. THAT is family values.

 

Good, a lot of people have a sense of entitlement in this country beyond their inalienable rights. and my statement was meant in general, not specifically you.

I'll quote JFK, a nice liberal for you:

"ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

I guess he worried about the samethings i do. I have np helping a man when he falls down.

You can't blame conservatives for everything, Maggie. And i dont think what you see as 'family values' is exactly what all the conservatives have in mind. Just a thought

I think you just showed yourself to be 'fucking clueless.'

You don't know a single thing about me, yet you attack me left and right. What do we call someone who knows nothing and assumes everything?

My mother and father do not support me financially, thank you very much.

 

Obviously not, my idea actually concerns FAMILES, not controlling people's right to conception control, or whether they can put a Baby Jesus on Town Hall's front lawn.

If you don't have your parents support you, then forgive my assumption. I assumed you made an assumption about MY life, as if I took handouts.

I reiterate, one cannot understand Family Values, unless one has had to be responsible for a Family. Sorry, that's how I feel. Which is different than the Republican's idea, who think Family Values pertain to who gets to Control Womyn's Uteruses and who gets to keep gays out of the Boy Scouts.

Sorry if I dissed you. You pissed me off, when you said I was looking for a hand out.

 

likewise.

My problem is i like to think in ideals. Ideals don't put dinners on the table and clothes on the backs of kids. Ideally, i think welfare shouldnt exist. I am not, however, for just cutting it off and letting people starve and get evicted from what meager housing they can afford.

I'm not very good at balancing my ideals with reality, and frankly, i dont know how to make my ideals work in reality(a job that provides enough for a family, for anyone who wants one).

Im sorry if i was overly offensive.