What Are You Doing On...

You should read more thoroughly before posting insulting replies.

Who said they don't "believe in" benefit fraudsters? There have always been benefit fraudsters, there always will be. I was responding to Nay who seemed to think that immigrants were able to "immediately" claim benefits once they come to Britain. This is not so. They must have been in employment for 12 months before they are eligible.

 

Well, you provide evidence that they DON'T get pregnant, solely for the purpose of claiming benefits. It's a silly argument man. I'm going on people i know and see, ok? Life experience.

I mean, really, you shouldn't get so emotionally involved, it's a debate, use logic and observation as well! And while you are at it, a little respect for other people's views, ok?

 

Ahhh my dear Cere, people who go on a P.C (Political Correctness) overdrive will eventually contradict themselves. And when they do... we shall gloat

 

I'm not trying to insult you, you were the one to start throwing labels around because you didn't like what others were saying. Don't start getting personal, i'm not offended that you feel passionately about something, i'm just able to look at things with what i perceive to be a wider view. You can agree or disagree with that without resorting to insults, i will respect your opinion one way or the other.

 

Shhh...!! The truly enlightened are not supposed to gloat..!

 

I think you should go back and do your homework because there are many many exceptions to this 12 month rule. And even still... why should they be entitled... if they want government help... get it from your own government. I mean, surely if we can afford to help these people then we can help our own homeless etc?
The UK shouldn't expect to be able to help the whole world.

 

You can't prove a negative, that's a logical fallacy. If you're going to make such a claim you would need to back it up with more than sweeping generalisations. Do you know for a fact that a majority, or even a significant minority of mothers became pregnant in a calculated effort to defraud the state? It seems like a crazy suggestion to me.

<irrelevant>
Since I'm being accused, who exactly did I "insult"? where did I "get personal"?
</irrelevant>

 

The benefit system is a safety net designed to help those who fall on hard times. Since we are encouraging a skilled migrant workforce to come to Britain, and since they provide a net gain to the economy, you could turn it around the other way: why should foreign workers be excluded?

 

Well one thing I suppose this thread proves is that the spirit of Thatcher is certainly alive and well, when single mothers and foreigners are all automatically assumed to be dishonest fraudsters...

 

Explain our HUGE homelessness problem then...

round and round and round in circles.

 

Homelessness is an intractable problem and has been for decades. There is no easy solution. It would not be solved if we stopped migrant workers from receiving benefits. The amount of migrant workers receiving welfare is a tiny margin of the number of non-migrants doing so, and the amount of welfare fraud committed by migrant workers is miniscule compared the fraud committed by non-migrants. The suggestion that migrant workers divert money from the homeless is just scapegoatism. In fact as net contributors to the economy they are actually part of the solution.

 

I do not believe I blamed migrants for the problem.
However, I did say that we should sort out our own nationals before trying to solve other countries'.
I do agree with giving people from other countries jobs and helping refugees, but we are only a small country and we cannot be expected to take and solve everyone's problems. The homelessness and benefits issues reflect this... if we cannot sort these people out then why do we think that we can solve everywhere else?

 

The migrant workforce is not a drain on the economy. The migrant workforce is good for the economy. It is part of the solution not the problem

 

apart from when they are claiming lol

Only playing, I do understand what you're saying.

 

I think a large part of the problem is that you only ever see or hear about the "bad apples". There's going to be a small percentage of immigrants who are "on the make" just as there is a small percentage of Brits who are and who will defraud the state at every opportunity. These make the news, these are the people who are used to feed xenophobia by the likes of the Mail.

You don't see or hear about the vast majority of migrant workers who are legally registered, who just come here to work, who pay their taxes, and who are helping our country. This country needs skilled labour, we have a huge employment gap!

 

I suppose it just feels like everyone is after something because that's the line of work I do... but yes I agree with what you're saying about over-generalising *hits herself for getting fired up!* and there are a lot of people out there who are doing fantastic things for the country and our economy.
I'm really not a redneck or anything, I promise. The one thing that I really love about Britain is how multicultural it is.

 

erm........took me a while...she's not died

 

Agreed on all of Lithium's points, the statistics are clearly on his side. And to add to them, one of the reasons why immigration (despire a very tiny minority of immigrants who may try to cheat the system) is and will be such a benefit to the economy, is the ever looming pensions crisis. As we are living longer and having fewer children, Britain has an ageing population. Over time more and more people will need to draw pensions, and the only way you can support this is through having a sizeable population in the labour market paying taxes and fueling the economy. Since the population is ageing and fewer children are being born, the population available to work is shrinking. Most immigrants, however, are young males of working age who come here to look for jobs so they can send money back to their families. They fill the jobs that a lot of people don't want to do (we'll leave the morality of this to one side) and in turn contribute significantly to the British economy. This is essential for funding pensions unless you want to be working till you're eighty.

Also, when you ask why we have a duty to these people, you should see where most asylum applications come from. In the last couple of years it has been Afghanistan and Iraq. I don't think I have to spell out why that is. Also, a good deal of Western wealth it bled from the Third World, via corporate exploitation or unfair trade rules. If such things were turned around, you would find fewer people in abject poverty seeking new lives in the West. But this shouldn't be an us and them situation. We need immigrants and immigrants need us, and within a generation or two their children will be as British as the rest of us and only the real racists will bat an eyelid. As you say Nay, multiculturalism is a beautiful thing....

 

Hai Phoenix-san *nods*