What about a Wiccan Forum?

Discussion in 'Paganism' started by WynterFrost, Jan 18, 2005.

  1. WynterFrost

    WynterFrost Short Bus Rider

    I have wiccan blood and love wicca.....i mean its not black magic...its not being a witch because we arent witches....witches bad...wicca good! :) maybe alot more people would take more thought into it....some people in this site are even wiccan....i mean ...i really dont see a wiccan forum...sorry if there is one i must be really blind ...
    -frieden von liebe
    -wynter frost
  2. xaosflux

    xaosflux Sysop Lifetime Supporter

  3. EllisDTripp

    EllisDTripp Green Secessionist

  4. Kiz

    Kiz Member

    Witches are bad? Would you care to clarify that? (Maybe in the religion and philosophy forum, so as not to get this too OT)
  5. Ayesha

    Ayesha Member

  6. WynterFrost

    WynterFrost Short Bus Rider

    witches are known to be bad...there is in fact a very very big difference in the two of wicca and the witch...
  7. ForestNymphe

    ForestNymphe Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    I disagree, but there is a great community of Wiccans and Pagans of all kinds in both the Pagan forum and cerridwen's personal forum.
    Blessed Be.
  8. xaosflux

    xaosflux Sysop Lifetime Supporter

    Great link Ellis, I completely forgot about all the subfoums in Philosophy and Religion!

  9. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

    yeah we got most bases covered there!
  10. EllisDTripp

    EllisDTripp Green Secessionist

    When did nudism become a specifically Pagan thing? Or a religion for that matter?

    They already have the "Bare It" forum, don't they?
  11. Kiz

    Kiz Member

    I find that rather offensive, WynterFrost. As a non-Wiccan Pagan I don't go around insulting Wiccans. Where do you get this information that "witches are bad"?
  12. Amanda N

    Amanda N Member

    For a start, you need to realise that not everyone has the same definition of wicca and witchcraft as you do.. now I assume that by wicca, you mean (for want of a better term) white magic... and for witches, you mean black magic...

    Now, the thing if, you're mistaken in thinking that there is such as thing as white and black magic. Magic is magic.. it's netural... it forever has been netural, and forever will be.

    This is a little bit hard to explain right now, with the ammount of limited time that I have, but you're very much mistaken... I think it's bad enough that the christans all fight among themselves.. lets not do the same in pagan circles...
  13. kitty fabulous

    kitty fabulous smoked tofu

    sweetheart, i've been practicing for 14 years. i am a Gaean WITCH, not a wiccan. i was casting circles while you were still potty-training. care to enlighten me?

    if you're going to come in here insulting people who have been practicing longer than you've been able to string 2 words together, i should very much like to see your explaination. i can only assume that you are referring to the subtle difference of accepting the so-called "wiccan rede" as religious dogma rather than accepting it as a good idea and intelligent guideline. but somehow i sincerely doubt you've got enough practical experience or study to successfully argue the finer points of thealogy and ethics.

    there are more things on heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. if you're going to come in here looking for a wiccan forum, then it might be best not to insult the rest of us, because the rest of the pagan community is bound together by ties of tolerance and respect. now unless you're going to ask some constructive questions or contribute to educated discussion, i suggest you put away your silver ravenwolf kit and your harry potter books, and shut up long enough to actually learn something from those of us who know what we're talking about.

    don't make me get all "granny weatherwax" on your ass.
  14. Sage-Phoenix

    Sage-Phoenix Imagine

    I don't think it was meant as an insult, just a little niave and ill worded (dare I say Fluffy bunny, meant of course in the non contemptious sense).
    Cut her some slack, she's young (in several senses). Everyone needs to start somewhere and you never stop learning. Bizzare misconceptions are part of the learning curve. And I'm sensing some utter doozies here...

    I have wiccan blood and love wicca
    Wicca has been around since 1957, I'm suprised it's already got a blood line. Care to elaborate.
    Hmm that's nice for you. What's brought this on?
    i mean its not black magic
    As someone said before magic is neutral, though to be fair wicca is generally 'white' (for want of a better term).
    its not being a witch because we arent witches....witches bad...wicca good! :)
    Where the heck did you get that, the wizard of Oz!
    Wiccans are witches, or at least a form of them (just as Catholics are Christian). There no 'good' or 'bad' witches in real life, just ordinary folk who practise the craft.
    Maybe alot more people would take more thought into it....
    Yes most people put a hell of a lot of thought it to it. To the point they actually know what they're on about. At least before professing to be something.

    I really dont see a wiccan forum...sorry if there is one I must be really blind
    There isn't one. This forum is for people of any pagan persuation. There's no need to have seperate forums, all the Christians get lumped together, so I'm sure we can manage too.
    Guess Cerridwen's has a more Wiccan slant, but is still open to everyone else.

    Stick around a while, get to know us, think and listen* before you talk, and everything will work out fine.

    Blessed be :)

    *Obviously this is writen, I mean the principle behind listening. Take in the information, analyse, digest, respond appropriately.

    PS For the record I'm not being a bitch. Sometimes it takes a little harsh critique to get the results and help on journey.
  15. skip

    skip Founder Administrator

    Actually nudism has been a very important part of the hippie philosophy since it's inception in Germany over 100 years ago. It's always been a pagan thing, and most if not all organized religions put it down, requiring you to cover yourself at all times.

    Perhaps it's not a "religion" per se, but many people practice nudism without realizing it's pagan context & origins. And yes there would be an overlap between those two forums. However, those looking for the spiritual roots of nudism must venture into the world of paganism, while those who just want to show off their bodies or just go naked don't necessarily have any spiritual reasons for doing so.
  16. kitty fabulous

    kitty fabulous smoked tofu

    the magic of wicca generally strives to be harmless, although quite frankly because of the vastness of the Web and the "butterfly effect", combined with the fact that destruction & creation is a cycle held in balance, and that any act of creation requires by nature an equal and opposite act of destruction, i'm not sure how realistic this is. but the point is, wiccan magicksgemerally strive to be without harmful intent, which is different than saying they do not cause harm.

    the difference between the wicca and witchcraft is really splitting the fine hairs, and is generally not something that even long-time practicing pagans can agree on. in my experience, mostly it comes down to subtle differences in acceptance and interpretations of ethical codes: the practice of witches is very similar in structure and spiritual basis to that of wicca, and can be virtually indistinguishable except for the interpretation and and acceptance of the Wiccan Rede and the so-called Law of Three (which has in recent times become in wiccan circles a "Rule" of Three, which is an important distinction, which i will get to later.)

    basically it comes down to this: the vast overwhelming majority of wiccans & non-wiccan witches i've personally met pretty much agree that it is unethical to run around causing unnecessary harm. but the reasons behind this are slightly different. this may be a good opportunity to discuss the differences between witchcraft and wicca, and ethics in general, so perhaps Sabrina the Teenage Witch here can learn something.

    the history of witchcraft and wicca are inexticably bound. in fact, the distinction between the two may be very recent indeed. witchcraft as it is practiced today is strongly influenced by turn-of-the-century secret societies such as the masons and the golden dawn. the religion that "uncle gerald" introduced in the later 1940's - early 50's was a rigidly structured and presented itself as traditional, even though modern wiccan scholars have shown that likely it was a created "tradition", drawing on multiple sources much in the same way contemporary american eclectics do today. the claim of an "ancient tradition" was a survival tactic to establish legitimacy; unforynately in those days a religion had to be seen as "ancient" in order to be seen as valid. and that's just the way it was. you copied your BOS from your intitator, and you "inherited" your tradition from your "grandmother". thankfully, times have changed.

    i'm not sure when exactly the Rede entered the picture, or whether it was introduced in britian or the states. but we do know that the Rede is not an "ancient teaching", it is a guideline that was added to the lore of the craft after it had already become an established religion, at least within "alternative" circles. now the fact that it was added does not in anyway compromise its legitimacy or wisdom; indeed, it probably was incorporated because, as previously stated, people generally agree its advice is a good idea. but what exactly is the Rede? what is its role in modern wicca and witchcraft? is it something that is "followed" or "practiced"?

    in a nutshell, wiccans tend to feel the need to follow the Rede: they see it as a divinely or semi-divinely or even self-imposed commandment forbidding certain actions. the idea is that if there isn't a rule, then people will cause harm. in other words, people will refrain from causing harm because of the rule. the threat of "punishment" underscores this in the Law (or Rule) of Three - originally considered to be a law in the same sense as the law of gravity (although who "measures" what is "three times as good or evil" & how is beyond me); now become to be commonly considered another rule to be obeyed. the threat of three-fold "punishment" for breaking the Rede keeps people in line.

    now as the mother of a 2-year-old child, i can only say it would be very nice indeed it things worked that way. but i digress.

    those of us who consider ourselves to be witches but not wiccan most certainly do not feel its "okay" to go on a binge of senseless destruction or manipulate those around you. we have a slightly different understanding of how energy works, and where power comes from, that makes the idea of "following the rules" to seem, to us at least, a little backwards. the idea of a need for rules and punishment stems from a belief in the duality of good and evil, as opposed to worldview more similar to that represented by the Taoist symbol of the yin/yang; as well as the concept of separate deity or deities (power-over) as opposed to the concept of Immanence (popularized by Starhawk in Dreaming the Dark, as what she referred to as power-from-within.)

    this is where the idea of "black" or "white" magic comes from, and it is indeed black-or-white thinking. this idea has crept its way into american wicca especially from the strong fundamentalist christian religious atmosphere in the states: quite frankly, they are very scary people, and are often in positions of power-over, and if we have "rules" to show them we're going to behave ourselves & not going to turn their children into flying ointment, then everyone seems to at least feel more comfortable. however, to my way of thinking, actions based on fear seldom make magical sense, even though they may be practical.

    non-wiccan witches tend to hold more with the concept of Immanence; as a Gaean witch, for example, i see Deity as the stuff of the universe; it is the energy that matter is composed of. to fight that energy, to have the belief that no matter how "powerful" my rituals are i can somehow go against the flow of the whole universe & twist things to my liking is not only arrogant, it's dumb. magic is performed by harmonizing with that energy, not "controlling" it. power just doesn't work that way, even if i draw a really fancy circle and burn an expensive incense and wave my athame around till my arms fall off. non-wiccan witches in general do not "follow" the Rede. we refrain from unneccessicarily causing harm because hurting other people, unless it's self-defense, is STUPID, not because a "Law", "Rule" or "Rede" tells us so.

    is either way "right" or "wrong"? i don't think so. obviously i feel the Gaean way is best for me, but some people may feel (for whatever reason) that the "need" the rules. to each there own. but passing moralistic judgement on someone because their ethical system is sructured different is rude to say the very least.
  17. velvet

    velvet Banned

    *gets popcorn and a comfy chair*.. this is good stuff!

    Think you/we scared her away from the paganforums though.. hehe.. or this thread for that matter.. poor thing.. teehee.. hm.. maybe we should lure her back.. shall I search for a picture of a pretty faery or sth and post it here? :D

    Ok.. done with the sarcasm.. hehe.. proceed ;)
  18. velvet

    velvet Banned

    I remember (from pictures though) that I was born nude.. was I born a pagan too? Didn't know nudism had it's origins in paganism...

    Okay.. being sarcastic and twisting words.. hehe.. sorry.. *must.. resist..* :D

    But I would never be able to be into nudism a lot because it's just wayyyyy to cold mostly.. I get cold very easily. I basically only get naked when there is someone willing to keep me warm or when there is a nice hot shower ;)
  19. Amanda N

    Amanda N Member

    I disagree that nudism has anything to do with being pagan... I'm sure that pagans praticed being naked (and probally are far more at ease being naked), but, as velvet said, we all enter this world naked... It's surely a natural desire to want to return to that state for some people, pagan or not.
  20. kitty fabulous

    kitty fabulous smoked tofu

    the association between paganism and nudism probably comes through wicca may possibly be as recent as charles' leland's aradia, which stated something about being naked in one's rites as a sign of freedom and equality. i've got the book right here, but i'm not going to look it up because that would require unwrapping myself from my comfy quilt, and it's cold in here. anyway, this was later included in doreen valiente's invocational poem, the charge of the goddess: "you shall be free from slavery, and as a sign that you be free you shall be naked in your rites." many witches or wiccans, such as myself, take this literally in the embracing of naturism. ("rites" can be stretched to include hot tubbing and volleyball, i guess.;) ) others are more conservative about their bodies and interpret it as simply being open, honest and without pretense.

    naturism is not exclusively a pagan thing, however. actually there's a very strong naturist movement among christians, as well. i'm not sure what other faiths practice it, though, either ceremonially or as a lifestyle. there's some interesting stuff on naturism's history i think i found on the hippyland site. i'm gonna have to look it up now.

    oops. must have been the huge cast iron cauldron belching flames, or perhaps it was the double-bladed labrys axe. sorry. i sometimes tend to come across a little strong. oh, i know: it was the black hooded robe and two-handed athame sword, wasn't it? *sigh* people always react to the big fuckin' sword. maybe i should have put it down before trying to shake her hand...

    *slinks off dragging sword and muttering "well, we did do the nose. and the hat. but she is a witch!"*

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