What’s needed to stop an American dictatorship?

Discussion in 'Democracy' started by Balbus, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. soulcompromise

    soulcompromise Member HipForums Supporter

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    or a shift left; though that would make a whole lot of states pretty angry. I think it would generate unrest. But is that what we're looking at? Donald Trump in the White House has created quite an uproar. We cycle out our government officials pretty frequently though, so any 'shifting' is not as likely to create lasting change as it is to simply stir things up for the other side of the aisle. Probably the Tea Party v2.0...
     
  2. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    I think at the bottom of our hearts there's less philosophical differences as you suggested than what it would appear. People keep getting more and more ridiculous just to get people to their side. Each wants to be the saviors and be lauded. One difference seems that one side is more driven to satisfy their immediate cravings, torpedoes be damned, while the other side thinks about getting up in the morning, or come winter. Putting off rewards to the future is something a lot of people don't have the discipline for. So we have that difference which seeps into regulation and law.

    The only way to get states to unite was to promise them some autonomy. Most federal control has to do with threatening to not let them have their Christmas presents. For example, feds can't tell the states how to school, but they can set up gift funds where they give back some of the money they took, designated for schools. Then they say, as long as you do "this", then you're qualified to get it. And of course, money talks, so they 'willingly' comply. :)

    If the president or congress said here's some money for the crisis but ya gotta do "this", then they'd be labeled dictators and of course the Constitution would not allow it.
    Besides, in a thing like covid, localities are affected differently. So like schooling should be a local thing, so the handling of other activities affecting or being affected by the prevalence of the virus, makeup of the local population, etc.

    Someone earlier in the comments acknowledged the Constitutional checks and balances are to prevent tyranny, then go on to warn against someone with dictatorial aspirations (as if somehow the Constitution loses validity if someone's will is strong enough). Well that's precisely why the Constitution is in place -- they most certainly did forsee that -- it's the whole point of the separation of powers after all. Doh. That's the kind of fake-newsery that sounds kinda logical (unless you stop to think about it) so it's easy to fall for, and people be like, yeah man dat right.
    Don't fall for it. :)
     
  3. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    I read or listen to arguments from all parts of the political spectrum, but I don't believe them unless I decide on the basis of my experience and the evidence at hand that they're correct. "Woke" would not be an accurate label to pin on me. I tend to be a moderate liberal centrist. However, I've found all of your posts to be pretty much knee jerk Trumpism: rightist/nativist/libertarian fake news that amounts to little more than name calling. You seem to be the gullible one, swallowing everything the lying, corrupt, draft -dodging, pussy-grabbing, race-baiting, narcissistic, divisive SOB in the Oval Office puts out.
     
  4. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    Here is something I have posted before about the weaknesses of US style Presidential systems

    Reading this reminded me of the West Wing episode in which Toby Ziegler points out the problems with a presidential system.





    Presidentialism vs Parliamentarism in The West Wing

    and here is something from it

    Professor Juan Linz of Yale University has written extensively on the merits of parliamentarism as a means of ensuring constitutional stability and preserving the rule of law in The Failure of Presidential Democracy. The presidential system results in a constitutional breakdown more easily than would a parliamentary system in emerging democracies because of the deadlock inherent in the separation of powers. In a country that lacks the civic virtue and liberal political culture of the United States, that kind of deadlock leads to constitutional crises, and even military intervention, and thus the breakdown of constitutional government, as many of the presidential systems in Latin America demonstrate.[my bold]

    The question I’d ask is has the US still got enough civic virtue and liberal political culture to ward of the type of collapse that is talked about?
     
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  5. Rehab44

    Rehab44 Members

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    Now tell us what you really think :smile::smile::smile::smile:
     
  6. Idlewild

    Idlewild Members

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    The reason we'll never come together as a nation is that one side's position is not based on reality. The GOP platform is based nearly entirely on lies, and Trump is just a culmination of that trend. According to the Washington Post, Trump has lied to the public more than 20,000 times so far in his first term, and his supporters don't seem to have a problem with that. They don't have a problem with him committing treason and violating the Constitution on a regular basis. How does one compromise with that?
     
  7. scratcho

    scratcho Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    You don't. You vote the bastards out and attempt to save this country from power hungry anti american , bought and paid for cowards.
     
  8. TheGreatShoeScam

    TheGreatShoeScam Members

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    What’s needed to stop an American dictatorship?

    An executive order banning executive orders.
     
  9. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    The NRA could tell all it's members to assemble outside the white house and demand Trump's arrest. Basically the kind of protests we see with BLM where Americans are willing to clash with authority because they think they are protecting America. Trump could be gone tomorrow if public did this.

    The reason you own a gun is supposed to be a moment like this. Sadly the American gun culture has bet on the wrong horse. They have shown up in support of tyranny. There are socialist/liberal style gun clubs as well. The longer this goes on the sooner it is one club on either side fires the first shot. Then it's just who the last man standing is. When you go to war with the government your only options are victory or death.
     
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  10. newo

    newo Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    We need to put an end to Trump suppressing vote by mail. He's doing more than trying to discredit it, he has managed to slow it down, and the majority of states won't count mail in ballots after election day even if they're postmarked before election day. Could there be an emergency order we can evoke to help the USPS cope with the high volume of mail during the election?
     
    Idlewild likes this.
  11. Balbus

    Balbus Senior Member

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    This was the lie

    For literally years right wing gun owners claimed they had guns to stand up to tyranny, ANY tyranny and I saw many moderate right wingers’ even liberals give this their support

    But it was all a con, the threat was always aimed at left wingers,(i'm guessing that at least some of them would commit acts of terrorism if a socialist president was elected) but the reality was that these people seem to be very comfortable with the prospect of right wing tyranny.

    So now their cover is blown, I think it is obvious to anyone looking to realise what side of the barricade these gun owners would be on.
     
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  12. Idlewild

    Idlewild Members

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    Maybe Kamala will get on Trump's attempt at vote suppression. They can't remain quiet while he tries to steal the election.
     
    granite45 likes this.
  13. baking soda
     
  14. Anchovie paste
     
  15. Dax

    Dax Members

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    Just keep voting Republican.
     
  16. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    You ascribe the characteristics of the left to the right. Funny, yet sad because there are those foolish enough to believe it. Lies, treason, violating the Constitution... Nothing but baseless claims for which no concrete examples can be forwarded. And yet some swallow it without even tasting it on the way down.
     
  17. what it doo my dude???
     
  18. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    Wow. a peace accord between Dubai /UAE and Israel.
     
  19. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    No, he got it right. We've gone over the concrete examples often enough. Read the Donald Trump Score Card for a rich collection of them. You obviously drank the Kool Aid, but the rest of us still have a chance of escaping.
     
    scratcho likes this.
  20. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Members

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    They were de facto allies already against Iran. And that's what it's all about. Will that lead to "peace" in the Middle East? Wait and see.
     

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