welcome to all the new EU countries

Discussion in 'Europe' started by PinkMoon, May 9, 2004.

  1. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    amnesty international freaks out anytime someone is handcuffed.
     
  2. wolf_at_door

    wolf_at_door Senior Member

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    Personally I hope that Rumsfeld, Cheney, 'the puppet', Ashcroft and the rest of the gang will be handcuffed.
    But that's just my emotions running out of control, and therefore I'm glad about the existance of an organization like Amnesty International.
    -cuz they would also "freak out", like you say, if this gang would be handcuffed with rights of "illegal combatants", instead of having rights as POWs.
     
  3. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    terrorists arent pow's...
     
  4. wolf_at_door

    wolf_at_door Senior Member

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    No, isn't it a good trick, for instance, to declare the war in Iraq over, despite the war has just begun there? Then the coalition can treat their enemies as "terrorists" instead of treating them as soldiers. It also blur the fact that Iraq is about to become a burning hell.
    But it's a genious trick, as long the majority of the american population eat it raw. Let's hope most americans will see the transparency of the lie before november.

    If your government is so sure, that the "illegal combatants" are dangerous, I suppose you've got proves enough to run a trial against them? Why haven't all those "dangerous" terrorists at the Guantanamo Base the criminal suspects right to a defender, like all other suspects in crimes then?
     
  5. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    well lets see.

    Iraq and the US are fighting against them. If they arent iraqi soldiers(who are fighting on our side), what exactly are they?
     
  6. wolf_at_door

    wolf_at_door Senior Member

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    They are different. Some are sunni, some are shiitic. But they haven't got influence of the Allawi-government the US has established in Iraq. But Allawi has no real power - I guess the mayor of Baghdad has more power than Allawi, actually!

    But the expression of having control is a good thing, ofcourse. Especially because it's soon election-time in the US. That's also why they keep so silent about Afghanistan. In fact only Kabul is under american control in Afghanistan, but the medias has been censored.

    I would not be surprised, if they suddenly catch Osama Bin Laden right before the election. It's easy to fake him, and film him. And if they actually find the real one, it's just a person in a network they'll catch - not the king in a hierarchy. Cuz Al-Qaida is not a hierarchical organization, and that's the important fact that the american government don't understand.
     
  7. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    wow, where do you get all your keen information from? Man, you sound like you have the best knowledge in the game. Please work for the US government? We could use you.
     
  8. wolf_at_door

    wolf_at_door Senior Member

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    Any information is available, if you scratch a little in the surface. The US government can't use me for anything, cuz they've been working beneath the surface all the time; the surface is only for Fox Channel and its viewers.
     
  9. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    lol, all news is just as bad as fox
     
  10. wolf_at_door

    wolf_at_door Senior Member

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    Good to see that you think Fox is bad. I almost becomed worried. ;)
     
  11. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    all news is biased...i've seen foreign news and its just as bad if not worse than american. America is more conservative than all other western nations, so when you watch our news, you'll see it slanted conservative and think its biased that way...but even our liberals are conservative to a good deal of the people in europe.
     
  12. wolf_at_door

    wolf_at_door Senior Member

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    All ideology demand monopoly on the idea of what's objective. Not socialism, nor communism, but only criticism dissolves ideology.
    ...And papers, articles, and books are much better mediums than TV when it comes to criticisma as the antagonistic force positioned to any possible ideology.


    Our decade is fucking political, but it's not a sole class-struggle anylonger. We've got a postmodern struggle, the socalled "cultural struggle" between a new discourse and the ruling ideology.
    This cultural struggle must be seen in the shade of the new modernity, and the rightwing has already shared hegemony since then. Most European rightwing governments is a coalition between neoliberals and conservative, especially the criminal danish government.

    Different ideologies do negotiate to establish a common ideological fundament to govern upon. But the fundament of coalitions always crack, because the scale of dispute grow as coalition grow. That's the crack in which ideological criticism has sneaked in, materialized as civil political movements... And that's why this decade is a political decade compared to the 90's.
    Conservaties are trying to establish a new ideology named "Neo-conservatism". Old Trotskists also join in this new ideology, so they can be well-armed for "the cultural struggle."
    The world order was antagonistic until 1989. After the fall of the wall USA won global ideological consensus up through the 90's. They won monopoly on the term "freedom", and who's against freedom?
    Its daydream of being the only hegemon in the world lasted 12-14 years. Sorry US, but you've had your 15 minutes.
    Bush has declared Americas Ideological Untergang.

    love,
    -wolf.


    p.s. let's get rid of all ideology.
     
  13. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    funny, you convey this message in english, not danish.

    The world is turning more and more into america(for better or worse...) and following free market capitalism. It is the best system that has been proposed to date and has done far more than any other system in spreading the wealth.

    America remains and continues to become more culturally dominant. If our power ends tomorrow, our values will still continue to spread, quite like hellenism spread throughout the mediterranean, except ours is on a global level.

    You may long for the day american power ends, but the question is whether you'll sing the same tune when china rules the world. I might add, When we had our 15 minutes of fame, we didnt conquer the world, we didnt enslave continents, though we had the power. Our 15 minutes of fame is freeing the world from the grip of nazi's and bolshevism. I'm content with our time. Is your continent content with their 'illustrious' history? Your time in the sun has been long gone and wont be coming around again for a long, long time.
     
  14. wolf_at_door

    wolf_at_door Senior Member

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    Not to sound stupid, but what the hell has mine or your language and tongue to do with mine and your political system?


    I'm definately for american culture! Swing! Jazz! Blues! The west coast! There are always something going on in the american culture. And that multicultural experiment is excactly what the republicans wanna crush. They wanna make fear in the USA - they wanna control people by uniforming them. Don't really you see that your politicians don't give a shit about your (imo) beautiful constitution? Don't you consider the right to organize as a basic democratic right?
    For instance, do any american got equal chances, like the constitution promise? And how free can you be in a uniform?

    love and understanding,
    wolf at door.
     
  15. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    I made the point of the language because you say america is on her last leg, and the fact that english is spoken throughout the world is undeniably because of America.

    of course the right to organize is a basic democratic right, but i'm confused, i've seen, and been apart of many demonstrations in the past few years...

    Yes, i believe that all americans more or less get equal chances. Does this mean that the rich dont have an easier time? Sure, thats impossible to stop though. Of course, we cannot remove all bias, but we try.
     
  16. wolf_at_door

    wolf_at_door Senior Member

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    Yes, and that's why I asked what civil culture has to do with a criminal & corrupt political system.

    Do you?
     
  17. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    i believe so. We are striving for an ideal, which we'll probably never attain..but i think we're moving forward
     
  18. wolf_at_door

    wolf_at_door Senior Member

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    Idealists wanna kill for an abstract truth from the heavens. Idealists are running after ghosts, instead of consider themselves and their goal as something belonging to the social reality.

    If ideas become adequate truths, you're moving towards fascism, no matter how human your idea is. It's good to think ideas, because ideas provides you to see the social reality from a certain perspective. But your idea cannot embrace any adequate truth.

    Reality is opposite to ideas. That's the antique hellenic thought of dualism. Therefore social reality can't be equal to any idea. But you can understand aspects of reality through a perspective based upon an idea.

    Your striving is a threat against humanity, because it includes your usual we-know-better-for-the-rest-of-the-world-mentality that causes so much pain and damage time after time after time. I don't doubt that most americans really want to do the best, but I'm sure most of the world prefer to be without your interference.

    (not you, Megara, but the US.)

    love and understanding,
    wolf.
     
  19. Megara

    Megara Banned

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    Our ideal from the 'heavens' guarantees our rights, and i'm glad it comes from the heavens. It states unequivocally that these rights belong to all men and no man can take them away, other people's rights are protected by the law of men, thats dangerous.

    what kind of logic is 'ideas become adequate you're moving towards fascism?

    Reality strives towards ideals, atleast ours does and has been for a long time.

    our striving is a threat against humanity? My god, our constitution and country has been a beacon of hope for over 200 years. It's message of everyone receiving life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness have been the foundation of numerous international treaties protecting human rights.

    Yes, our ideal has caused so much suffering. Removing europe from the grips of the nazi's, the world from the grip of the bolshevik, giving far more money than ANYONE to help out people from around the world. god america does suck.

    The world wants to do without our interefence? Yeah right. Time and time again, the world has bgged us to come to their aid, be it ww1, ww2, or hte cold war. Especialy the latter, AMERICA stood strong while others waivered. As a result, most of europe is now free and democracy is spreading aroudn the world. The problem is, people want handouts from america. They dont realize that we have been protecting world security for the past 60 years and have largely brought about the biggest economic boom ever making more people prosperous than any other point in history.

    Yes, America has been shitty to the world.
     
  20. DoktorAtomik

    DoktorAtomik Closed For Business

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    Uhhh... to who, exactly? Certainly not black people until the latter part of this century! Are you forgetting that black people didn't have their right to vote protected until 1964?

    (apart from black people or those too poor to participate in the American dream)

    (like the Geneva Convention, cast aside conveniently in Guantanamo Bay)

    (but America has only ever acted in its own interests, and only entered WWII kicking and screaming after Pearl Harbour)

    (cue Stars and Stripes)

    (whether the countires in question want democracy or not)

    (while growing rich on the backs of the third world)

    Y'know, I'm sure this thread was about whether European enlargement was a good idea. Nice to see you trolling again, Megara, determined to drag threads off topic as always :)
     

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