We are all selfish creatures.

Very well said, Yyyesiam2!

Peace and love

 

your doing yourself a self service by focusing on the fact that actions matter!

selfishness is something that we can't not be.

focusing on how we treat other people rather than ourselves as you say.. is actualy focusing on something that we want.. meaning it is focused on us after all.

as i said with the peace pilgrim.. she was focusing on her own actions towards the rest of the world.. but who wanted her to do this? HERSELF... she is doing something that SHE wants to do..

Helping other people.. is something we do because WE want to do it.. meaning that we all look for fulfillment.. and there is always this selfish fulfillment, whether we get it from directly helping ourselves... or 'suposedly' helping each other.

 

creating false dichotomies is a critical thinking error. it's like saying that all fruit must be either green or blue, and if it isn't green or blue it isn't a fruit. it's just asinine, and it limits your mode of thinking to whatever predetermined parameters you picked. by and large it's a good idea to avoid philosophies that try to divide everyone and everything into two catergories (nazism, communism, christianity, buddhism).

I don't need a motive to do anything. I'm perfectly happy being a completely irrational creature, and motives usually don't enter into it....
your basic idea is that people always act in their own best interest (to avoid guilt, or to increase pleasure), but i gave you an example where i didn't act in my own best interest, i actually worked counter to it, and have not recieved a reward. FWIW, i'm an athiest, so i don't expect a heavenly reward for being nice to others.
I let other people into traffic cause it's the socially conscious thing to do, or are you too young to understand that...

you used the false dichotomy again.

 

Good post, Eugene! I totally support your idea of false dichotomies. Just because something is in our best self-interest does not mean that it is a selfish act.

Peace and love

 

it was not a 'false dichotomie'.

the two catogories i used were logical necessities.

mine were alike too saying that all fruit must be in one of two halves of the colour spectrum (colour-wise)

it all depends on whether we agree that selfishness and selflessness can be two divisions of action by themselves..

just as it is a logical necessity that 1 + 1 = 2 i believe that it is a logical necessity that every action is either selfish or selfless

which moves me onto my next point :

you say that you are perfectly happy being a completely irrational creature.. but you let cars pull in front of you because 'it's the socially conscious thing to do' this is your motive.. and your reason..

for whatever reason you must feel guilt.. or a duty that you should let them in front of you.. because of 'social consciousness'... if you felt NOTHING then you woudln't have even registered that they needed pulling in for a start..

you contradicted yourself in other words.. or are you to past it to understand that...

 

I am sorry that you cannot look beyond your delusion of dualism. Om mani padme hum.

Peace and love

 

As far as i am aware, i am using logic. Do you not use logic? maybe just 'peace and love'

I see no problem with dualism. Could you please explain to me why it is a 'delusion' with relation to selfishness and selflessness (i am actualy interested to know).

Knowledge and Science

 

Buddhism believes that dualism is false; therefore, making it a delusion. Everything is a spectrum. I believe it is pointless to confuse self-interest with selfishness. Why must everything be judged? What are you accomplishing by labeling all actions? Why not focus on the bigger picture of life, to love all beings and be at peace with yourself?

Peace and love

 

- There is no reason to judge everything. But i find it mentally stimulating to think about life.. how we are.. why we are.. etc etc
- I like trying to proove points.. just as many people try and search for knowledge and truth.. i think the idea of selflessness is a mistake in logic... and so i am trying to point out that it is to others OR looking for answers as to why it is not a mistake..
- Why am i not focusing on loving all beings and being at peace with myself? Because.. at present i see no reason or need to do so.#

I know its a big question.. but why do Buddhists see the loving of all beings something we shud aim for? what is the logic behind it.. i mean what is the motive

 

All beings are part of the divine love that is eternal. We all contain innate goodness that should be loved with equanamity. Some people are more in touch with their goodness than others. Love alone can conquer hate.

If you have more questions about love, read some of the Dali Lama's teachings on the subject. He would be much better at explaining it than I am.

Peace and love

 

If you get something out of it, and someone else gets something out of it, then it's not selfish... it just makes sense!

I don't see the point in getting all obsessive about it and saying that everything is selfish... it's not like everyone deserves to feel miserable all the time.

 

its your problem if you take selfishness to be a bad thing.

in my opinion... the fact that everything is selfish.. makes me realize that there is no duty for us to do some things over other things.. such as giving to charity over buying loads of clothes for ourselves..

If i win the lottery then i could choose to give money away or spend it all on myself... either way both are actions that benefit how i feel

i feel good about giving money to friends/charity etc.. or i feel good about spending all the money on myself..

most people would argue that being 'selfless' and giving away the money would be a more just action.. when in reality wherever the money goes.. at the end of the day its how the action effects how i feel..

in this way, acknowledgement that every action we make is selfish anway.. or relates to how i feel about it.. makes me feel less guilty about the actions i make.

 

selflessness cannot be understood until you have experienced a lack of self, and a relaxation of that logical apparatus that tells you 1+1=2. perhaps, in some modes of awareness, 1+1=1.

 

i would like to say, however, that you are headed in a good direction. let logic carry you to its own end, and you're eyes may open.