Washington Navy Yard shooting.

Actually, in many cases the government either told people to stand down, or wasn't available for a response. One prime example is the Gulf of Token, (which we provoked; ) We had a battleship attacked, and when a local submarine asked if they should intervene, but Lydon Johnson wouldn't allow it.

In other words, we purposely killed our own people, to wage war in Nam. If the gov did it once, they'd do it again. Only this time, the war is on our Rights.

 

If you're going to use examples from history to back up your point at least make sure you get your history right. There was no battleship attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin incident, Stp. The ship in question was the USS Maddox, a destroyer. There was also no submarine in the area. Finally, there were no US personnel killed in this incident. So, no, we did not purposely kill our own people.

 

Are you going to listen when a full review of the facts emerge?

 

Ok so a destroyer; I've heard the name of a ship, but it's all the same to a civilian like me. Furthermore, he did kill our own citizens by drafting/sending them off to an unjustified war, provoked by our government.

This is what our government does; this is one of dozens of examples. Most wars we've gotten into was provoked.

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html


The government is a corrupt criminal monopoly. When you say it's "Possible, but not probable." I disagree. I think this evil government will do wtvr it takes to hold onto power, and further their agenda. The government is a war machine; and I believe WE are their next enemy. With Facial recognition technology, Drones, NSA spying and, the NDAA's "right" to kill citizens; Everyone should see how we're becoming the enemy. That's why they need lies and big violent events like these, so they have excuses to take more Rights from the people.


IDK who originally said this, but I heard a Vietnam vet reading a "Declaration of war," written by the people, essentially saying the government is waging war on us, and we must defend ourselves, our country and, our constitution

 

If you get your history wrong it takes away from any credibility you have. If you don't get the simple facts straight, how can you expect anyone to believe you got your conclusion right?

Well if a site on the internet says its true then it must be....

So when are you going to start defending us, Stp? I still see you doing nothing but talk.

 

It has all been declassified. Even attempts at false-flag terrorist attacks (including flying planes into buildings) was also declassified (Operation Northwoods,) There are also informants or Whistle-blowers if-you-will, who come out, and tell us government lies. A small example is flight 800, that crashed off the shore of Long Island, New York. I was actually about a mile away, and heard this huge explosion (I was really young, maybe 10; ) but only the FBI were allowed to investigate. People believed it wasn't the fuel tanks blowing up (like the government said,) now FBI agents are coming out and saying it was a missile. (14-15 years later.) There was a movie made on it. Also a destroyer is a battleship to me. I just meant a ship, everyone should know about these issues. Even 9/11 makes no sense the government claims there was no "Molten Steel" however, The NYFD said different "We saw molten steel; like you were in a foundry. (Like lava) Yeah, like Lava."

The government denies this fact totally, cause it doesn't fit with their "fuel in the elevator shaft," story. That BS about if I get the name of a ship wrong, suddenly I'm "not credible;" I think you guys say that shit so people dont look into what I say. But it's all true- the government has made us the target, and pushed us into many war unconstitutionally.

This is a forum, all that is possible to do is talk. Plus, this is where we're at right now; Sharing information and enlightening people to the truth. Waking Americans up, and encouraging people to exercise their Rights, is a good start.

But also, you don't know me. I'm sick of saying this! You know, I jumped out of a moving vehicle to stop my friends house from being robbed! When shit hits the fan, I get an adrenaline rush, and it's on. Most people wont mess with me, when I'm mad like that. I literally see red, and feel much taller/bigger than everyone around me. Several people wont even fuck with me when I'm like that. More often than not, they walk away.

I realize government is different, as many soldiers would follow unconstitutional orders (about 30%.) But I'm one person, there's only so much one person can do. Plus, the government is overboard, but the people have somewhat consented it. I think it's time to open peoples minds. Once we reach critical mass of people who want freedom, government tyranny will overshadow any other option. In other words, I believe soon that we may have to Fight.

But (hypothetically) people who survive wont be the strongest or fastest, but the people who can adapt best to change. I can.

You'd be best off not assuming things about me. I've been homeless on the Streets of NY, I'm brave but cautious and, I adapt to change. I know I'll be on the Right side of history for doing so. If you think I would comply with Martial Law, or any other Constitutional Suspension, you are sadly, sadly mistaken. I wont comply with unconstitutional laws, (such as the NDAA,HR347, CISPA etc) which the government has used to take our freedoms away with. I believe the government is losing power and legitimacy due to the collective knowledge within the internet; Now, they probably feel threatened by the Tea-party, OWS, Anonymous etc etc.

They are trying to kill ideals of freedom through fear and concern; If we're all afraid of each other, it makes it easier to control everyone. As I said, facial recognition software is being tested for use in the USA now. We have coming to a point of pure tyranny that is closely discribed in George Orwells 1984. The EPA, FDA and, DHS, all have armed officers. We need to realize that the role of government is not to take care of everyone, but having a fair land where companies don't get bailouts and special benefits.

We can go back to the government we had in the 60's- with no debt, and hardly any spending. The Military-industrial complex and Liberal handouts have created this mess. We need to rid ourselves of these problems. We need the same policy with the middle east as we have with africa; leave them alone and let them govern themselves. But we can't do that, cause the government NEEDS a Washington puppet in these places, to do business how "WE" want.

http://rt.com/usa/pentagon-train-syrian-rebels-048/


http://rt.com/usa/dhs-hockey-washington-face-033/

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.co...yria-chemical-weapons-top-priority/?hpt=po_c2

 

Oh for fuck sake, Stp. Are you only capable of misdirection and dodging? Only capable of moving on to the next conspiracy theory when you are shown to be incorrect about another? Informants can be wrong, and can have an agenda of their own. I am not saying they are lying, I am just saying you cannot believe them just because you want what they are saying to be true. Who are these people? What is their background? Are they credible? Do they have an agenda? What do they have to gain? This is called critical thinking.....

Again, your credibility suffers because your ability to get the simple facts strait shows you have a problem with being thorough and with oversight. Again, if you cannot get those simple facts strait and correct, how can you honestly expect us to be believe your conspiracy theories? Who is to say you're not overlooking facts?

Yep, you're obviously a bad ass, Stp. No one will ever fuck with you if they know whats good for them. You have no idea what war is like, so stop pretending you have the first clue what it will take to survive the hypothetical war against government you see coming. If that fight does come, and I believe it will, I suggest you stand aside and leave the fighting to the men who know.

 

Actually, I look at all that. Obviously you don't. Who has to gain from war, violence and crime? Government, because it gives them legitimacy. You know, 40 "terrorist" plots were stopped since 9/11- 20 by regular citizens, and 20 by government. But the government used entrapment techniques. They offered mentally ill muslims bombs, and told them they we're al qaeda and to blow up a building. There is no logic in the governments stories- NONE. I brought up the other conspiracies to show motive, and that our government is not new at this. I don't overlook ANY facts, and I think you just believe the official story to everything and don't look at the facts. In this case, police were ordered to stand down. Hmm sounds similar to EVERY case I've mentioned. There's nothing fucking wrong with asking questions, we're in a conspiracy theory form, and the government is known to lie to us.

Straight up dude, you're a fucking dick! Just as I said elsewhere, you think GOVERNMENT training is the best, government troops are the best etc. It's all lies.


I'm a III%; In the Revolutionary war there was never more than 3% of gun owners on the battleground, but we protected our land and earned our Independence. I hold these same values portrayed in the Constitution and Declaration of Independence. The government is ran by the consent of the governed. They lost my consent along time ago, and I am capable of fighting/shooting. Government badges don't mean shit! You're not better than anyone, you're not above the law and, you're not a freedom fighter. I hate when people kiss soldiers ass saying "thank you for fighting for our freedom." You didn't fight for shit! You fought for blood, oil and, empire. Some legacy buddy!

It's like Adam Kokesh said "If the troops defended freedom, they'd attack the government." So, I have no empathy for your buyers remorse. I didn't join cause I knew the government was fucked!


If you're gonna sit here and mock me because I didn't get your special government training; you're not as smart as you put off.

I shoot my gun, and I can hit anywhere I wish on the target, I could even hit the targets shoulder (as if disarming him.) As I said, government approval doesn't mean shit. Give me 2-3 shots I can kill anyone. (I know the Army's "3 shot" trick. )

As I said, I hold strong beliefs, and I am willing to fight for them. We can go back and forth all day but that doesn't change the facts. Soldiers obviously don't take their oath seriously (since nearly 30% said they'd disarm citizens illegally.) When it comes down to it, you're not me, and you don't know what I'm capable of. I would never "sit down," in this hypothetical scenerio. (which will probably happen.) I'm not afraid if that's what you're insinuating.
But again, I wouldn't expect you to know that, cause you don't know me.

I believe in the founding principles of our country, and I would be willing to fight, cause I'm not gonna raise kids in this pop-up 1984 world. If I wasn't willing to fight and die, I wouldn't be talking at all.

Cause they're watching people like us, who defend the Constitution. I couldn't sit back in such a scenerio. That's why it's pissing me off that you keep talking down to me. This is principle, this is the fate of our country perhaps. Your arbitrary words mean nothing to me, cause only I know me.

I got dumb ass canadians now, giving me a neg rep saying I'm not a freedom fighter; Yet, HE supports Obama, and YOU think government agencies/officers are more trustworthy than your average joe, when in reality, that's all they are- they just have a government gun and badge now!

 

There is plenty of logic, Stp. Logic you disagree with, certainly, but logic nonetheless. Just like there is some logic in your theories, even if there is very little hard evidence.

I never said anything of the sort.

Lashing out now?

No, you're not one of those 3%, Stp. You didn't protect shit, nor did you earn our independence. Don't you dare try to take credit for something men fought and died for over 240 years ago for.

I never claimed to be above the law, Stp, nor have I ever claimed to be a freedom fighter.

My buyers remorse? I regret nothing I did.

I am mocking you because you haven't figured out that all you're really good at is running your mouth. If you really believed what you say you'd be busy training, not running your mouth on an internet forum.

Good thing for you targets aren't shooting back, huh?

I never said you're afraid. I said you don't know what you're talking about. I don't know you, but I know your kind.

Easier to say it than do it. You seem really good at running your mouth. We have yet to see if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is.

They mean so little that you're blowing up like this on an internet forum?

I never said they were more trustworthy. I don't think they are any more, or any less, trustworthy than your average joe.

 

Actually, when you look at the whole picture it makes no sense. The government is defending/sending weapons to our so-called "enemy" (AlQaeda & Gihadist.) The whole bit in syria and Libya, is counter-productive. We put Al qaeda in power in Libya. None of it makes sense! Even the official story of 9/11- 8 out of 19 hijackers were still alive, yet they were also on the plane, according to our government. (one of them, they found his ID 2 blocks from the WTC, which is also intriguing.) It's not even possible. So, I disagree. There's other examples I could cite, but I've had a long day in school. But in this situation, I'm only asking questions to the official story, with the history of government corruption in mind.

You may have not said it, but you were insinuating it.

Sig, firstly, I'm not lashing out. Secondly, I'm not taking any credit for the Revolution. I am a III%er, and that is our philosophy. (that it would only take 3% of gun owners, to fight for independence.

I'm saying that you think government is above the law- doesn't matter who; you've defended the War Powers act, which is directly contrary to our Constitution. Plus, government has made themselves above the law, but instead of fighting them, you decided to turn around and fight with me, (one of the only people in this country who actually gives a fuck about it.)

Okay, that's fine. It still doesn't make you ANY better than me, just cause you got a government pass- infact, that just means you're better at bending over backwards for disrespectful assholes- I couldn't handle THAT. I don't take well to so-called "authority"

Ha! What a fucking joke. I'm good at alot of stuff! This shows that you don't know me, from Adam. Training is great, I encourage people to work with Citizens Militias etc. to train. But there are other methods of training other than just that. Rock Climbimg, hiking and, practicing scenerios are all ways one may prepare.

Um, yeah!? The Military's targets don't shoot back either. I know cause I use law enforcement targets. I'm not some retard, sig! My first intention would be to find cover and return fire.

No, you don't. I'm one of a kind, I don't have a type. Also, I could say the same about you- But I wont, because I don't know you, and you sure as shit don't know me either.

Again, this is an internet forum. You and I aren't going to battle together; this is merely a place to come and share ideas. Plus, I've had people here say "Aren't you scared you're gonna be on the governments watch list," I probably am, but that's part of the risk of defending our rights. you think the government doesn't know EXACTLY where I am when I post on here? Of course they do! They know where you are too! I'm not talking just to talk. These words could start trouble for me. Why would I want to start trouble for myself? I'm doing it to prepare others for what may come, and also, to show people that freedom would work. That's why I say, I'm already fighting. But you're making a broad assumption that since I've never fought, I can't do it. OR you're saying I'm all talk- both of which is pure BS. As I said I stopped a robbery in NY; I was unarmed and it wasn't even my house. I did it cause it was the Right thing to do. This is the same scenerio. Obviously I'm not gonna change your mind with words, but there's no other way for me to convey it.

I fight with both words and actions. You may think it's not fighting, but how about YOU tell a cop he works for a criminal organization, THEN tell me it's not fighting. It is fighting- it's resistance to tyranny.


"For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction."~Isac Newton~

I'm not blowing up. Actually, I befriended you like 2 days ago. I think you're a decent person, I just don't understand why you bite my head off with every new post.

You said you would trust government more than the people. Which pretty much brings us back to square one; Government is the only one who profits from wars,criminal activity and, terrorist attacks. People on the other hand, typically don't want to hurt anyone. SOMETIMES there are bad people, but violent crimes dropped 1% the last year alone according to the FBI. But government violence, spying and, anti-freedom laws, keep going up.

Government=Big Brother

NSA/DHS= The thought police.

Obviously, we don't see eye-to-eye on many issues. The role of government being a big one. Also, you trust the government much more than I do. That's fine though, I'm willing to agree to disagree. Only, I'm sure you'll be at my throat over something else tomo.

 

No, you're not. You're making accusations, not asking questions.

Lets stick to what I have actually said, Stp, and not what you want to think I said.

Not lashing out? You said, specifically, that I am a "fucking dick". You also said that, as a 3%er, "we [emphasis mine] protected our land and earned our [emphasis mine] Independence". You claimed to on the same level of those men who actually did it.

I have never said anything of the sort, nor have I defended the War Powers act. All I have said is that, according to our legal system (you know, the law), the War Powers act has not been invalidated or found to be unconstitutional. If you think it is not, and that you know better than many constitutional scholars, then I suggest you start your legal challenge.

Here you go again.... What separates someone like me from someone like you is that I have actual experience.

So you say.

And yet you feel bold enough to claim you could kill a man in 2 to 3 shots.

Yep, you're an individual, I can see that. You don't like authority but you expect to be able to survive a modern fight against a disciplined enemy. Yep, you'll last a while....

But you aren't defending anything, Stp. You cannot see the difference between running your mouth and actually fighting. You have never once fought the type of fight you're calling for, Stp, yet you think you are prepared and that you'll be good at it. From what you have posted nothing could be further from the truth.

It isn't fighting. Once again, it is just you running your mouth.

You are blowing up. I am not biting your head off, Stp, I am trying to get you to calm down and realize what you're doing now isn't what you think it is. You allow your emotions to cloud your judgement. Someone comes along who has actually done what you think you are going to have to do and you shrug that person off as a government stooge. If what you think needs to happen actually does happen, you better pray to whatever god you believe in that you're surrounded by men like that person. They are the only think that is going to keep you alive.

I've said nothing of the sort. I said I wouldn't trust "the people", the mob, any more than I would trust our government.

We see eye to on the role of government, Stp, and I don't trust the government any more than you do. You need to stop letting your emotions get in the way of your better judgement and vision.

 

Actually, no I'm not. If the government didn't kill their own people, maybe we would trust them alittle more. If you catch someone stealing cookies 19 out of 20 times, that 20th time, you may assume they did it.

Well, you were acting like one. I didn't mean "we" as in, ME; I meant our forefathers. Obviously, I wasn't alive. But the basic point was it never took more than 3% of gun owners. I meant "they."

Again, you're telling me to go through a system, I know to be broken. Plus, Obama is a Constitutional Scholar, so evidently, it means nothing. This is one thing in an extended lists of laws which directly violate the Constitution. The system is not going to fix itself.

Actually, there's vast differences between us. I have different experiences. I've lived on the streets. Your experience still isn't going to prepare you for this situation; You're used to fighting for our government, against people fighting for their country. It might be a smidge different than what you're used to...

I can- Chest, head, chest. Everytime I fire at my target I get a lethal shot within any 3 shots. Spinal cord, lungs, head- no one would survive that.

I didn't say that I wont die, or wouldn't be willing to. When the government goes haywire, some wont be able to protect themselves. Drones can drop a granade on me, or you, for all we know. I never claimed I would live; Only that I'd be willing to fight for freedom (if it came to that.)

Again, I dare you to run your mouth to police/government. Then, perhaps you'd see how utterly dead the First Amendment is. Plus, I'm not calling for a fight, that would make me a terrorist (by our governments standard.)

I don't think anyone could honestly say they are totally prepared. No one knows what or how it will unfold. If the government did a false-flag chemical attack here at home IE, not me or you would be prepared (Unless you wear gas masks everyday.)

Running me mouth is fighting. Calling to White House and complaining about they're constitutional violations is defending the Constitution. If I'm
"not doing anything," then it should be simple for a brave soldeir like you.

Go ahead! Do "nothing" with me.

I'm not blowing up. I'm manic-depressive, so emotions clouding my judgement, can only be fixed so much. Also, I know what war is. You don't have to be there to see it. Take Drone Pilots for example- Many of them have never been to war, but the still get PTSD just from seeing it on TV. I've seen Saddam Hung, I've seen little kids with their heads cut off, and Syrian Rebels holding up their dead bodies. American today has been immoralized. Death and destruction is part of our day-to-day lives.

I don't see you as a Government stooge, sig. I respect your experience, but more so you're adherence to your oath, and the Constitution. I wouldn't rely on enough soldiers to be like you, however.

On the other hand, you're telling me not to fight for my beliefs; Which, wont happen. But also, you're making broad assumptions about me, and saying I'm only good at running my mouth. But As I said, running ones mouth is a little different if you're doing it to the White House, Dishonest Politics and, police. To me, that is fighting the status quo. What do you do which is fighting for freedom more so than that?

^this is why I say you trust government too much. I have experiences will average people everyday, no one wishes me harm, no one harrasses me or rumages through my shit- unless they are employed by the Federal government. Frankly, I trust the people MUCH more than government. The only reaction the government has is brute force and harassment.

I think the governments role should be to protect life, liberty and property and that's it.

I think you give government too much credit. I see Government agents everyday taking peoples kids away, searching teenagers Unconstitutionally and, breaking their own laws.

The other day, I was at the police dept. and we had been waiting for hours, and my brother said "This is taking so fucking long;" Well, the next thing I know I have 8 cops around me, in my face, yelling at me, telling me I called the lady at the front desk a bitch (Which was a total lie.) so I said, "I didn't say that," do you know they MADE me apoligize, they threatened me with going to jail for 'disorderly conduct' for something I didn't even fucking do!

These are the bullies you work for, and I fail to think they would help, more than they hurt.


I'm fine on my own. Everyone has to die. At least I can defend my beliefs in the process.

 

Conspiracy? Probably. I smell the malvo case. Could possibly black muzzies be involved? Just askin. Please don't ban me .

 

When did that piece of cardboard last shoot back at you?

 

You honestly cannot see the difference between what you're doing and just "asking questions"?

A simple oversight on your part then. No worries.

No, all I am telling you is that I didn't say or do what you claim I did.

So says the armchair general. If there is one thing you learn fighting an insurgency it is how to fight as an insurgent.

And you think you could pull that off when the other guy is moving and shooting back? The reality of a firefight is far different.

I honestly think you'd be one of the first to stop a bullet, Stp.

Yes you are. Own it.

No, it isn't fighting. I am not a solider, Stp. I never have been.

It is bullshit like this, Stp, that truly makes me shake my head at you. Drone pilots getting PTSD are a fucking joke, and seeing dead bodies on TV or the internet is nothing compared to seeing someone drop in real life, or feeling rounds flying past you, impacting around you, and so on.

You, boy, have no idea what war is. Stop pretending like you do.

If you respect my experience or my ability, Stp, you wouldn't make comments like you did in the previous quote I replied to. That shit is a slap in the face to all of us who have been knee deep in it.

I am not telling you to not fight for your beliefs. I am just saying you're going about it wrong. What do I do? I train, Stp. I put more stock in sweat than in typing.

I trust people just fine. I don't trust "the people" though.

Why would they make you apologize? Did they know your brother said it and not you?

 

Well first of all, drone pilots aren't watching it on 'TV'. They are watching it on a monitor in which they knowingly and actively participate in the deaths of others. You do see the difference, right? EDIT: And I agree with Sig; the mental reactions of a drone pilot are likely far less intense than those who are actually on the ground and in the shit.

Simply being a passive observer watching a television set does not mean you 'know what war is'. That is extraordinarily naïve, and probably proves without a doubt you have absolutely no idea what war is. Ask Sig the difference between watching real combat videos on YouTube and actually fighting in Fallujah.

 

Firstly-Ghost, I'm not sayin I know exactly what it's like, but I've simulated it a million times over. Even playing COD online, gives one a feel for how to act/react; I know people are much braver on a game, then they'd be in real life. I'm not directly comparing anything I've done, to actual war. I said I know what it's like- and I do, I've read many first hand accounts of war when I was young and obsessive over it.

 

I don't know why US Marines go through three months of boot camp, The Crucible, and other assorted training if we can just give them a few books and a Playstation.

And yes, I've read the reports of PTSD from Call of Duty players. It's really rather horrifying.

 

No, I don't. I said people were warning a false flag might happened, the this happened. The government has lied about so much, we should question scenerios like this.

Okay, man, wtvr! I never claimed to be any type of soldier at all- just a man ready to stand up for principle.

Idk, but I know it's different. I've been in fights with paintball guns and plastic BB guns, not near the same, but it's still a sort of practice.

I'm not gonna say you don't fucking know me again!! You talk all this shit, based on absolutely nothing!

No, I'm not. That would be "terrorist" activity.

What are you talking about?

I've not been there. I've been saying that. I know what it's like though.

There's a different between respecting and condoning. I respect soldiers who fight for the country, I don't condone unconstitutional wars though.

Okay. I would love to do the same. Unfortunately, I don't know any citizens Militias here in GA, I moved from NY.

They said "who are we gonna believe YOU, or one of our own?" So I was forced to apoligize for something I didn't even do.

 

What a HUGE difference, silly me!

Obviously. But it doesn't make much of a difference. We're all responsible for everyone the government kills. They do it in our name.

I've never been a "passive observer" so obviously you're discrediting me for no reason other than you're an egocentric asshole. None of you cocky fuckers know me. If I wanted your dumb ass opinion, I'd scrape it off the bottom of my shoe, like the horse shit it is!!