War on Terror-why arn't we winning ?

I totally agree with all that you say in your first paragraph,if you look at my past posts you'll see that I made similar points.

Again I have mentioned Bloody Sunday in a past post, the actions of the Paras that day are not defensible. They were shameful acts of murder,why do you assume I would justify their actions at all? The Ulster Civil Rights Movement were winning much support on the UK mainland and abroad,especially in USA , greatly embarrasing the British over their oppression of the Catholics ect.

The Paras actions had the added effect of giving the IRA a credability it would never have earned itself- by their murderous behavior. After that tragic day IRA numbers swelled with civilians that saw no alternative to armed conflict.
I had no reason to list the history of British oppresion of the Irish in my discussion with roamy but I believe that I acknowedged it several times if you care to look at my posts. Further, in finding 'faults' in the actions of the IRA Ive been careful to add that the same could said of both Loyalist & British forces actions.
The final three lines of your last paragraph,are, I'm afraid unfair and unworthy of you.[/QUOTE]

You not gona reply to the above Willy ?

 

I'm suspicious about all these wars anyway. We do tend to use militaristic terms to describe our circumstances: wars on poverty, drugs, etc.; battle cancer; struggle w/ depression. We seem to only understand something made more dramatic than it really is.

& When we had a Cabinet dept. called the Dept. of War, our wars were real enough: WWII was a war on two nations bent on world domination. But since we've had the Dept. of Defense, there's been very little defense (the only military action on 9/11 was jets flying toward Russia!) but lotsa wars: on terror, drugs, etc. Genuine miltary engagements've been against barely countries & then simply against ideologies. There're cadres of people ready to lather up the citizenry for wars, but when they fail (as ours have in the past 50 yr), then we look for blame & place it on whichever poor shmuck happens to be President; those cadres of agents provocateur are already on to their next skirmish.

 

I've asked you some questions and have recieved no response(s).

 

Believe me Willy_Blue I do not consider your cause ridiculous , I support the re uninification of Ireland knowing how the artificial majority of loyalists in Ulster came about & why. I'll say again that had the armed struggle been limited to targeting the British occupying forces & the Loyalist Paramilitaries should if/when they threatend the Catholic community we would not be having this debate.

As Ive said before, attrocities were commited by all sides,the evidence is there. My concern is actions that deliberately target civilians-thats why I posted that list of PIRA incidents to roamy ,there would'nt be much point listing British or Loyalist hits on unarmed civilians for him/her would there? The argument was his objection to my calling PIRA 'terrorists'. My point was that in deliberately killing innoscents that is what they became.

Your cause is based on the wish to reverse a wrong inflicted by a longstanding bitter enemy. Ive no doubt that you & roamy could list an eye-watering account of British attrocities that I could (would) not deny. But those crimes were not addressed by the killing of more civilians during the troubles. PIRA stooped to the level of their sworn enemies & made themselves as culpable.

All Ive heard is an absence of any remorse in the face of reasoned argument & the same old PIRA defiance. Your cause deserves better.

 

Gender
female

 

thanks outt.i hope ta get ta 80 anyway Ha! ha!theres a lota be done yet .Go dté tú an céad outt

 

…with peace roamy

 

It cultivates the us/them mentality which is an essential component of the war on terror.

 

It is an issue of culpability as I see it. Civilians are not as culpable as the President who authorizes an unjust war but there is some degree of culpability. If a civilian sees injustice carried out in the name of his country and he does nothing about it, he is culpable (to some degree) for the injustice he witnessed. Think Nazi Germany.

No. It's justice. If the boy's father was killed by an unjust war (the war on terror), the first act is murder, the second is justice.

My guess is when we change us/them to we/us.

 

If the boys father was innocent then both acts are murder; justice is served only when those who had direct responsibility for the injustice are punished. It's simply a form of retaliation.

I think that is often the cause and not the solution, human beings are first individuals, and will often rebel against one another when they find their choices of how they are allowed to live reduced to what they feel unacceptable. As choices are reduced, greater force must be applied to control those who disagree with the only choice they are allowed.

 

How many Iraqi civilian lives have you saved in the last decade? What have you done in the last decade? Waved a few banners? Protested in your home town? What do you want people to do? Adopt an Iraqi family and bring them to America? I think you have some very warped ideas about justice - and feel your own feelings are clouding your judgement.

Oh yeah, I forgot: It's all our fault!

 

now thats not really what your askin at all.now if you had just asks the question straight up that your really askin',rather than little cryptic games, i think you'd already know the answer you'd get ta that one.

 

Actually that is ALL I'm asking. As I see it, what is known to me as Ireland is an Island occupied by people. It appears to me that about 72% of the people, occupying about 84% of the land and known as the Republic of Ireland wish to be independent of British rule, and 28% of the people occupying 16% of the land known as Northern Ireland do not. If the rights of people have any meaning, what is the basis on which the people occupying the already independent Republic of Ireland feel justification to annex the land and those living in Northern Ireland against their will? I fail to see what would be gained, or what motivates such a desire other than a land grab.

You claimed that "If all the people of Ireland are given a vote, then yes and the English Government will then be out of Ireland for good.", but if Northern Ireland is by choice united with and a part of the United Kingdom, should not all UK citizens be included in such a vote?

What is it I'm missing is what I am asking you. Is there something you can tell me which would bring me to understand and support what you promote, the annexation of the 6 counties occupied by persons who do not wish to be governed by the Republic of Ireland?

 

Why does any of that matter?

I have no such aspirations.

If you care to expound, I'll listen...

How are my feelings clouding my judgement?

Quote me on that. (you can't)

 

I'm presuming you are American.

'If a civilian sees injustice carried out in the name of his country and he does nothing about it, he is culpable (to some degree) for the injustice he witnessed.'

See below.

Question: War on Terror-why arn't we winning ?

Its designers have purposely made it that way. Their goal isn't to "win," it's to justify 24/7 military action around the globe.

The real reason for global US military action is to enforce international "free-trade."

If the west wants to be all about puffing its chest out with its war machine don't cry about a little terrorism in our backyards.

Because it's a cost of free markets. Were you expecting something for nothing?

USA- fighting to keep the market "free"

I think you get the general idea.

 

firstly the people in the republic of Ireland are not on any wish,as those 26 counties of our country have already been takin' back by us since 1916,from the brits whole stole it.its the brits born in Ireland,in norhern Ireland that don't want our north freed of british rule.those people are not irish people.they are british people born in Ireland,with the same mentality as cromwell an all that came behind him.they are the decendents of those who invaded our country ta plumage,steal an kill.yes the island of Ireland and its lands are belong ta the irish peple,but you clearly show your lack of knowlege of irish facts an history if ya think it just about the land.it goes a lot deeper than land.its about the liberation of every last irish man woman an child in their own country to be left alone ta live in peace.the land grabbers are the brits whole stole it.

 

Yes, I am American.

I honestly don't get the idea you're trying to communicate.

 

Thank you Individual for that astute observation

Those who had direct responsibility for the injustice (the father’s death) were not punished. (I hope that was clear). That's why I said, "when he (the boy) becomes a man." (Years had transpired with no justice). So I reason the boy's revenge killing is justified (within the context of war, not civilian life).

Yes, we are individuals, but we are not individuals only. We are more than individual units because we live on a planet with many individuals. So the solution should reflect our collective reality as well.

Since we must live with each other, isn't it better to seek solutions that reflect that reality too?

 

I've not claimed to have any great knowledge of Irish facts and history, which is why I've asked questions.
One side of my family is of Irish and Scottish descent, but that has no effect on my views. What is it that makes someone Irish, Scottish, or British?
How many generations does ones family tree have to be void of any non-Irish ancestry in order to be considered Irish?
I would think that the Courts would be the proper solution to reclaim any land that had been stolen, returning it to the individuals it was stolen from, assuming theft is illegal in both parts of Ireland.