War on Terror-why arn't we winning ?

Perhaps we should concede the war on terror, like the war on drugs, crime, poverty, etc. are all wars which cannot be won, and concentrate on reviving the economy, creating jobs, reducing our debt and balancing our budget instead.

After all, none of those things are declared wars but only reactions to the actions of mostly a small number of people who are not going away, leaving us to deal with them case by case.

 

I say take no part in it, which IS indeed possible. Turn off drop out, tune it.

 

Another option would be to not fight terror with terror then expect a positive outcome.

How about if we sought to understand the causes of terror so that we could then apply the appropriate remedy?

 

The last three posts were awesome, thanks.

 

Isn't that about the same as what I said, "After all, none of those things are declared wars but only reactions to the actions of mostly a small number of people who are not going away, leaving us to deal with them case by case."?

 

I agree . But thats what we're all doing-trying to understand the causes of Terror.

 

Okay,but lets assume the boy has grown up with enough maturity to discern between Military (your 'occupying force') and civilians . Are you saying that the terrorists hatred would be as justifiably served against civilians as the force that killed his Dad?

 

All the stuff about keeping a populace in a state of fearful alert is spot on and is so blatant in the media as to be a joke.
But I wonder about the why has terrorist acts become so prevalent in the last 60 or so years.
I have an idea, albeit probably not a popular one, especially in this crowd , but I think a lot of it has to do with the imposition of "rules" on warfare after WWI & WWII.

Used to be if two groups went to war, very often the victor would move in take the shit and say "It's mine now!"
Now war has become nothing more than a spanking.
The ancient Assyrians had the right idea, go in, conquer, kill all the adult men, cut the tongues out of the remaining adults, shave heads, separate families and export as much of the populace to the furthest point from the conquered homeland that you control.

No oral tradition to continue, cultural identity wiped and moved 100's or 1000's of miles away, not too many people left with memory, reason or ability to wage a terrorist war.
If your objective is to conquer and subjugate a foe, that is certainly a good way to do it, and isn't that what war was originally all about?

Now I'm not advocating such actions today, but I do see a clear connection with the alteration of the concept of "war" and military victory in the 20th century with the rise and predominance of terrorist activity.

Essentially there are no "real harsh" consequences any more for asinine behavior, just look at N. Korea for an example, and so it continues.

At times nothing gets the job done as well as a good ass-kicking.

I know it's hard to pin-point the actual aggressors with the majority of terrorist activity, so I just fall back on a mantra that has served me well;
"KILL THEM, KILL THEM ALL!" :devil:

*the opinions expressed are my own and are based on a meager examination of the topic and therefore are subject to being completely erroneous and full of shit, but what the hell, I'm bored*

 

Yeah, Nazis are a real hoot right?

 

Mmm tough one...coz it would be Murder? Whos he gona Justifiably Murder-the guy(s) operting the firing system,the guy who chose the target, the one that gave the order , the President or maybe them all...just to be sure , its 'justifiable'afterall !

 

I think Balbus missed a great big chunk out of the timeline.

Who was OBL? What is Al Qaeda? Why does Al Qaeda hate 'us'?

OBL didn't just spring out of nowhere. It's also true he has known family. It is also known they are not terrorists. So you have to ask yourself why one person form one family did what they did. Was OBL from a poor family oppressed by U.S foreign policy? No.

Imho, individuals such as OBL do not have to have any rational reason.

It's obvious that he would gain sympathy if he used 'American foreign policy' as an excuse.

That doesn't explain why he decided to kill or inspired others to kill.

Perhaps instead of blaming others we should be blaming those responsible.

Exactly: Without an enemy we can't have war.

 

I know I've posted this elsewhere but it's an on-topic video for this thread.

Ladies and Gentleman the real terrorists:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2q4LvC0ipVo"]Julie Felix - Masters Of War - YouTube

 

This guy's lyrics are what I was trying to get at:

"So let us all agree
Let us not dissent
Let us not ask questions such as
Where our freedoms went
We'll just fly fly the flag
Sing G-d Bless America
Question people's patriotism
Who don't join in the hysteria

We saw some of that in this thread.

Dangerous Times

There's terror in our midst
They could be one of us
Behind you in the line
Beside you on the bus
Wearing camouflage
They might be wearing suits
The terrorists among us
Might be wearing army boots

These are dangerous times
People are afraid
No looking back at history
To see how enemies were made
Some dictators are bad
Some dictators are good
That's a hard one to explain
But I wish somebody would

So let us all agree
Let us not dissent
Let us not ask questions such as
Where our freedoms went
We'll just fly fly the flag
Sing G-d Bless America
Question people's patriotism
Who don't join in the hysteria

These are dangerous times
And so we lose our rights
While these terrorists among us
Do their dirty work at night
There isn't time to read
The contents of the bills
That Congress votes for anyway
Up there on The Hill

There's terror in our midst
It wears the good disguise
Fools alot of people
They seem like such regular guys
Rewriting all the rules
You don't have any say
In fact they even count on you
To look the other way

There's terror in our midst
All over the tv
It's what's behind the words
That scares the daylights out of me
The twisting of the facts
The stretching of the truth
The terrorists among us
They manipulate the news

So let us all agree
Let us not dissent
Let us not ask questions such as
Where our freedoms went
We're going to build them schools
We're going to build them banks
We're going to build them pipelines
From their fields to our tanks

My heart goes out to Johnny
Sent off into war
They convince him it's for freedom
That he'd lay his life down for
My thoughts are often with him
I pray he comes home safe
And I pray for every innocent
Laid early in the grave

These are dangerous times
You might be overheard
Using one of whatever they've defined
As being a dangerous word
What if they don't like your songs?
What if they don't like your books?
What if you fit a profile
Based solely on your looks?

They listen to us talk
They read the things we write
They watch us all on cameras
They know where you were last night
They know where you stopped for gas
Which magazines you bought
Back in 1984
This was all just crazy talk

So let us all agree
Let us not dissent
Let us not ask questions such as
Where our freedoms went
Let's have a look inside those pockets
Let's have a look inside that purse
Let's have a look inside that glove box
Or someplace maybe worse

And who was in your house
While you weren't home
And looked in your computer
And through everything you own?
What did they want to know?
Which websites do you visit?
What have you learned about them?
They want to know - what is it?

So let us all agree
Let us not dissent
Let us not ask questions such as
Where our freedoms went
We'll just fly fly the flag
Sing G-d Bless America
Question people's patriotism
Who don't join in the hysteria

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj0cDKkuOxc"]Chuck Brodsky: Dangerous Times - YouTube

 

wheres your list of loyalist and british army attacks.plus name one war anywhwere in the whole of history where there was no civillian casualtys. war is war.there are casualties in all wars.but if there was no impearialists starting wars, there would be no need for anyone ta fight them back.and as for the good friday agreement,the first ta break it were the british.the british empire are all terrorists ta me.so our fight back was a fight against real terrorism.plain evil!

 

I think he is suggesting that the so-called 'imperialist war' spread to killing random civilians, and it was justified as them being 'products of British rule,' 'collaborators' or just 'being British'.
It went beyond killing British soldiers in 'war'. The IRA killed people simply for not being the same as them - regardless.
You might point to many 'legitimate targets' - but within war there are many innocent people ensnared. This goes both ways.

 

Liar! but your goverment and your queen will be very proud of you for keeping up their 800years of tradition.

 

Why am I a liar?

 

So you don't deny the list I provided then . I daresay that you could post a list equall too or 'better' than mine. My point is that terror failed all 'three sides',no one won, not Loyalists, Brits or your people . But the real losers were the ordinary folk behind each of those forces.

I posted that list because it demonstrates the deliberate targeting of civilians,not people accidentally caught in crossfire, men,women & Kids,defenceless. You could argue that British Bomber Command in WW2 deliberately targeted civilians on an industrial scale,mass murder that triggerd the Blitz in England as a response costing Thousands more lives. Theres no denying that either.

I would not have half the problem with the PIRA or any of the modern terror groups if they targeted only the Military and with the same calculated care avoided civilians casualties . The Loyalist Paramilitaries,in claiming to defend their communities against armed civilians (PIRA) were simply terrorists.

Maybe few here would agree with me. My issue is that Armed civilians of whatever Nationality or cause , should aim their aggresion exclusively at the Forces of Oppression as a matter of principle . Civilians should never be a legitimate target.

All these years since 'The Troubles', I'd really like to read your views on this roamy .

 

I don't see the boy as "the terrorist" since he was the one who was terrorized.

As I've previously said:

The law of the jungle (war) is kill or be killed (and of course it is different among civil folk). If the west wants to be all about puffing its chest out with its war machine don't cry about a little terrorism in our backyards.

So, in a war context (which I believe does exist) if the boy straps a suicide vest on (because he is poor and can't afford more sophisticated weaponry like us) and one of us gets killed, his act is justified imo.

 

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