War on Terror-why arn't we winning ?

A study of some of the most successful people in British history has found that only one - Henry VIII - was a psychopath.
Professor Kevin Dutton assessed ten people regarded as among Britain's greatest to determine how psychopathic they were.
He found that Henry VIII was in the same category as dangerous criminals like Ian Brady or other serial killers, but others who had fought their way to the top were not.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/henry-viii-modern-day-psychopath-234910932.html#TnKnk5s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NSCWW_xRrI"]Dr Kevin Dutton Extended Interview - YouTube


Melanie_86

Ok, I've re-read your posts, and what you seem to be saying is that Multiculturalism does not work, and you wonder why people that do not fully integrate into the society/community don't go home. You cannot expect people to give up their beliefs/ideologies and blend comfortably with your society and have a harmonious community. It is the majority of the Muslim community who do not wish to fully integrate with your society.

Your e.g of this is a RADICAL ISLAMIST didn't see the funny side of a film.
How did the MAJORITY of Muslims take to this film?
Is this the incident you are talking about:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...protest-violence/story-fncynkc6-1226476236307
So because a handful of people make a stink about something - it is a sign that Muslims are not integrating?

I don't think your argument against Multiculturalism works because there is a diversity of cultures in Australia, and for the most part it seems to be working. What some WHITE Australians seem to want is a WHITE Australia.
If your thoughts are not quite as extreme as that - then using there arguments just makes you seem as prejudiced as they are.

Don't you think I've not heard the same arguments from British people?
I wouldn't say the complexities are vastly different - it's just a matter of when these issues occurred.
If you think it is different - how so?

Too many immigrants.
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/ex...-to-to-put-an-end-to-this-tide-of-immigration
Not enough integration.
http://englishdefenceleague.org/home/about-us
Is it Multiculturalism Which Has Failed?
http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/it-multiculturalism-which-has-failed
After Woolwich, just one choice: Slide to civil war or SEND THEM HOME!
http://www.bnp.org.uk/news/national/after-woolwich-just-one-choice-slide-civil-war-or-send-them-home

 

Thanks for that very good Video. Its a subject thats long interested me,my career was largely in working with young offenders. Children cannot be diagnosed as psychopaths (at least in UK) untill adulthood ,therefore they are 'labeled' as having a personality disorder.

I know of one guy who was assessed in such terms,very intelligent & perceptive, who having started from very poor & disadvantaged conditions in the UK,went to the USA & is now a very successfull Senior management Consultant,much sort after in the Financial world. Literally a self made man. All of his qualifications are bogus,his CV partly fictional,he is described by admiring colleagues as a typical 'Type A' personality & has been at the top of his field for some decades now.

The point I think we're looking to make on this thread is that psychopathic charicter traits are advantagious in todays Governments particularly in relation to the Wests dealings with the Middle East & the Third World. That the 'War on Terror' & the Corporate/Military interest,as it has manifested 'on the ground' (including the killing of innocents) has itself become State terrorism.

 

Multiculturalism is not working because it divides communities, it does not bring them together. What we do have working and governments of all persuasions here will not recognise is a multi-racial society which does seem to work for the majority. Those who chose to cling to their home cultures are the ones that are alienating the rest of the community; you will see entire suburban shopping districts where they make it as much like home as they can. Shop hoardings and advertisements entirely in their own language. The demand for government sponsored schools for their own kids. Demanding councils to set aside set days at the local pool for their women.

You said my example of my birthday party was irrelevant? I believe it is a perfect example. If you wanted to become a part of a society, why wouldn't you wish to mix with others?

Yes I will say openly, that we do have a lot of good muslim people here, but they are by far the minority of their sector. And yes, we do have white extremists, just like you and every other Anglo/European based country.

As for the supposedly 'peaceful' demonstration which became a riot within minutes. Two thousand odd is not a handful, we are not a populous country, that is a big number.

Lastly, the essential evidence of people of a certain community being unwilling to blend/merge with the host nation they have chosen to reside in; is the total silence from their voices in print or other media when some person or persons of their persuasion has done something wrong and I mean seriously wrong. Take rape, which many of them have been responsible for; so often, if they do speak up, it is in defence of the perpetrator and making out the victim at fault. One other thing; recently in our news, one of their Imans claimed that Islam will rule Australia by the end of this century; there was a lot of condemnation from people on that topic...the silence from the Muslim community was deafening.

 

they were bout 750,000 aborigines in australia9who were the true natives of that country) in the late 1700s.but after james cooks exploration for britain,on returning with his accounts of his explorations of the austrailian east coast.the brits decided to steal their country,when they arrived in botany bay on a fleet of ships in january 1788 establishing a penal colony there.because of their actions by the 1920s the number of about 750,000 aborigines had fallen by 90%.loadsa natives dyed due ta ta conflicts the brits had put upon them,plus loads more dyed cos of the brits placing sheep an rabbits full of diseases on their lands,which also completely unsettled and ruined their way of life.no country in the world has as much theft and blood on their hands as britain dose.

 

There were a similar number of Celts in Britain when the Romans arrived, when they left that number was less than the number of native Australians there are today. The Romans devastated huge populations throughout Europe, as did the Mongols and several other races. Put simply it is what humanity does; look at the US for example with the Native Americans.

Some interesting facts. When Arthur Phillip arrived here with the first fleet, the first thing he tried to do was reach out to the native population. Some of his efforts prevailed, most failed. The Aboriginals were just as ruthless and hostile to the white settlements as were many of the whites towards them. That the British made mistakes, that can be said about any new society exploring new lands; they more than made up for it over the years to come.

But I digress, what has this to do with the topic? Or was it you simply wanted to have a go at me for some quirky reason? Ah...but I see you are from Ireland? Perhaps you are harboring some ridiculous ancient angst against all things English?

 

are you trying ta start a war ?

 

No roamy I think Melanies just trying to have a rational discussion-& making a good job of it in my opinion. Your loathing of everything the Brits do/have done is well known. Why don't you create a thread about it?

 

Roamy why would you say that? I have as much Irish/Celtic blood in my ancestory as I do English and German and I am proud of my heritages. You should be to. And what I have found from my Irish friends and family here are that they are the most forgiving and understanding people I know.

Thank you Summer *post Liked*

 

i asked you that question because of your quoted post to me making wrongful assumptions and insinuations directed at me personally.thats why i would say that!

 

A weakness of Nationalism can be that it extremes into racism. Maybe its just a facet of human nature. I am of Scots/Irish as well as English ancestry & I know of instances of anti-English sentiments in Scotland among a minority there. Demonising another culture or Nation works to no ones advantage. Nor does dwelling on historical wrongs-we can't undo them.

Dialogue,talking through differences in the light of todays realities & sincerely trying to see the others point of view heals,biulds trust. Then theres a chance for solutions to be found-but both sides have to be willing to invest effort.

We all live in glass houses!

 

now in response!.firstly i was not speaking to you directly.just because some posts a post directly under yours dose not mean they are speaking ta you specifically!i was speaking ta no one specifically in my post.i was merely posting some facts of history concerning australia on a thread.if i wanted ta speak ta you directly i would have quoted you or addressed you by name on my post.and as all bad things that come from unwanted occupations of impearlistic natures,no i don't see my post ta be off topic at all.yes there has been many explorations of new lands.but exploring a land and occupying an already inhabited land by its natives and trying to extinguish them are to completely different things.just another little fact of history you failed ta add about Arthur Philip.after his gamekeeper John Mc Clntry died of wounds inflicted on him by aborigine natives.the very next day after he died philip ordered a party to capture 6 natives and put them to death.why? what was his reasonin?.because he said he wanted them ta be made in his own word,s a severe! example of. for what ?simply because they wounded Mcclntry which led to his death.but they only did it in retribution for the innocent lives of aborigines he had already killed.see the thing was ,he was not just hunting game as in animals for food or survival.he had been also using human beings as game,just killing them through his hatred of them.those people ran down an killed as game were aborigines.so what was their crime ?those 6 natives he put ta death.their only crime was ending the life of an evil gamekeeper who ran down and killed austrailian natives just for sport.you said the natives were just as ruthless an hostile as those who persecuted them.not true! but even if everyone of them were,there is only one thing i'd call it.totally justified!, given the facts! and the only one trying ta hava go was you.i see you are frome Ireland!and as for your last statement i would'nt even try and dignify such a ridiculous statement with a comment.its not the first time someone has tryed ta spread that falsehood bout me.an i'm sure it won't be the last.believe what ya like.it dose not concern me.the only thing i'm concerned about are facts!ya phillips was a really nice guy.he murdered 6 natives for killing a ruthless evil gamekeeper, who ran their people dead ta the ground for spor!.their only crime was killing him ta protect more natives being murdered by him.

 

As long as you allow historical facts to increase the weight of that 'chip' you seem to be carrying, the burden of it only becomes more unbearable. Try dealing more with the present and you might find that nationality, place of birth, or ancestry need not be a factor in determining your friends.
Try judging each individual individually rather than collectively and you may find that problems are much more easily solved by dealing with the present while seeking retribution for the past only increases the difficulty.

 

I think if you want to call the British and American (etc) governments a bunch of psychopaths - you are welcome to do that.
But I think it rings a little hollow.
We are all 'psychopaths' to varying degrees.
As the videos/link suggests many different people were high on the 'psychopath' scale.
Issac Newton, for e.g.
And?

Melanie_86

I've just been reading the difficulties Catholics had when they first arrived in Australia.
It was something like 30 years before government suspicion subsided, and there was more parity with the Anglicans.
That barely scratches the surface with regards to the cultural difficulties Catholics encountered.
If you prefer religious difficulties then that's fine.
I think we can agree with 'integration' issues.
Added to that, white settlers only landed in Australia - lets say - 240 years ago.
Didn't Australia ban Muslims (and many others) from entering Australia until relatively recently?
Wasn't there a 'White Australia policy' until relatively recently?
And you expect a near perfect integrated society in the space of a generation or two?
I would say that is unlikely.

Have you ever been to the many 'China Towns' in Australia?
What about the Polish community, how are they settling in?
What about all the 'British' bars in Australia?

I understand your point about 'blending in' and perhaps there is a baseline of being an 'Australian' that if disrupted causes tensions.
But there is cultural diversity in Australia - it just seems there is an acceptable cultural difference and an unacceptable cultural difference.
It seems the Muslim community (if we have to call it that) are the whipping boys at the moment - the staggering 2% of them (as a demographic).

I don't agree with faith schools.
I would imagine there are many different denominations that 'demand' schools of their own.
If we have to have them at all, then the corruption that goes on within them is what I would be more interested in.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-in-public-funds/story-e6frgczx-1226438977643

As for a day (or more likely an afternoon) where a pool is women only - I struggle to get too worked up about that, to be honest.
What next, a ban on Halal butchers?

I would say there is rich diverse cultures here in the UK and In Australia.
There are ones that are very different - such as the Chinese culture, and the Muslim culture - which is magnified by the varying differences, such as race, and country of origin.
I don't know the people - if any - that you invited to your party.
I don't know if they know your feelings towards Muslims in general.
I have no idea what you were planning to do/eat at your party.
So, it is difficult to know why they may or may not attend.

I don't know where you got that figure from, but I've read it was between 100 and 200 hundred people - and that:
'Leaders of 25 Muslim organisations met, and said that the protests over the film were "unacceptable and un-Islamic", and that they did not support even peaceful protest' (as posted earlier)
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/muslims-inundated-with-messages-of-hate-20120918-263gj.html#ixzz26oqzFaUr

One out of?
We have the same issues here in the UK.
People like Abu Hamza al-Masri and Anjem Choudary - who get a disproportiante time on the BBC (for e.g)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22640614
It seems to be the same people over and over again.
How many times can the 'Muslim community' condemn the same blowhards?
I would imagine it is the same in Australia.
Also, why is it just the 'Muslim community' that has to come out and near enough apologise if a Muslim rapes somebody?
Do you apologise when somebody 'like you' rapes somebody?
It would be interesting to know who these Imams are that you speak of.
If it turns out like your protest story - then I imagine only part of it is true/accurate.

I do appreciate what you are saying, but I think it is slightly blown out of proportion.
The same type of issues are brought up here, but I don't see the unraveling of UK life crashing towards me.
Maybe I'm wrong!

The understatement of the century.

 

No I'm not trying to 'out' anyone as a psychopath, nor make a broadbrush assumption about any specific institution,& as you imply,just as there is an Autistic spectrum its feasible theres a Psychopathic one that we are all on.

My aim since seeing the video ,first posted by orizon,has been to try to understand its implications culturally & in terms of this threads discussion from 'our' point of view & of that of the Terrorist whos country or culture s/he feels has been misused by the West. Its trying to get the full picture on why we are being attacked.

 

Individuals full post can be found on page 47 No462. Also I'd recommend the reader checks out odonIIs post page17 No166 (not copied here because it needs to be read,I feel, in the context of discussion there).

There are no clear reasons as to why the attacks,on the West (particularly western civilians) continue. Some have in the past been given but with no consistency as far as I know. An early Bin Laden demand was for American military bases to be withdrawn from Saudi Arabian soil. The Palestinian predicament has been given as a reason.

It seems typical of todays terrorists that often no post-attack ownership of who commisioned the action,let alone the reason/aim of it,is given. As far as I know the surviving Boston Bomber has still not explained the motive behind his & his Brothers action that triggered this thread.

Nor have we discovered why innocents,including Muslims, are targeted in attacks. It seems that winning public support for their cause(s) is not an aim. It may be ,I speculate,our being a part of a Democracy, that is seen by the Terrorist as oppressive,that makes us culpable & therefore valid targets.

We don't know what their demands or the terms of settlement are. Most of this threads discussion has been about trying to guess,to find feasible motives for the violence.Our posts make many suppositions. Are we any closer now to 'why' than we were on page 17 ?

 

I don't think so.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8ackCsWmkk"]Bruce Cockburn - if i had a rocket launcher BEST ORIGINAL - YouTube

 

What are you trying to say?

 

Did you listen to the lyrics? If you got nothing from that, I don't know what to tell you...

 

I did.

How many kids they've murdered only God can say.
If I had a rocket launcher...I'd make somebody pay.

An eye for an eye?

I also watched the first video you posted - which seemed to be giving it's own message.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoDJvzBVcYE"]Bruce Cockburn- If I Had A Rocket Launcher - YouTube

That's why I asked.