War on Terror-why arn't we winning ?

That clip does provide us with a moral lesson; choose your psychopaths carefully.

 

It gives a definition to an uneasy notion that I,& I suppose others , have had since at least the mid-70s (for me), kind of 'theres something increasingly 'not right' here'. Nor has that,for me, been limited to the actions Ive witnessed by the Right,or Capitalism,but the Left too & of course the rise of both State and 'civilian' terrorism.

It can be seen in the media & across Entertainment & culture generally. Psychopathic-like behavior is considered cool or 'sexy'. The idea of ME FIRST,'greed is good',simplistic shallow solutions & the quick fix. The rise of reality TV, Big Brother , The Apprentice ,ect, & the popularisation of whatever it takes to win as a value. 'Grand Theft Auto' & all the various war games are in similar vein. The lone individual has long been championed in Western films,independent,attached to no one & polarised into simple right or wrong situations, usually resolved via the heros gun.

The Wests history of interference in the Middle East has been disastrous,consistently ignoring cultures, values & often lacking respect for regional sensitivites in the persuit of their national or corporate/national interests. The Wests excuses for the invasion of Iraq (WMDs & the supposition that Saddam was allied to Al Qaeda) were flimsy & typically psychopathic,given too that they were a prelude to violence.

Civilian Terrorists are rarely psychopaths. State Terror has everything to gain via a psychopathic agenda, both internally & in terms of its foriegn policy/treatment of the third world.

 

Both my dad and brother have served in the middle eastern and Afghan theatres; both have terrible stories of what goes on over there and even someone like me who doesn't take a great interest in these things can see its only getting worse. Then you have situations like here in Australia with our total disregard for national security, letting people into the country willy nilly simply because they get on a leaky boat and 'claim' to be refugees. Most convenient that they have no papers, yet they have to come through countries like Indonesia before they get here....did they walk? Lol.

Added to that, we have a growing and alarming situation where we have young guys of middle eastern background turning to extremism because they feel 'marginalised' by the general community? WTF, why wouldn't that happen if you stick to your own culture and not mingle and blend with everyone else??

 

We have one or two - maybe a handful that feel margenalised. That then go onto kill. The same is true with people that were born here...and...

What are you trying to say?

Ofcourse it would happen if...

Stupid!

 

What I am saying is that we are not learning from both experience and history. Cultures of such diverse differences don't and will never mix. You cannot expect people to give up their beliefs/idealogies and blend comfortably with your society and have a harmonious community when you have a section of some groups who despise the very values your own society treasure. Better not to have them here at all, than try and force this divisive multi-cultural idea onto the main stream. It does not work and only causes friction. An ideal society is a multi-racial one, following the one set of standards, ie culture.

A perfect case in point. Several months ago there was a protest in Sydney led by a radical Islamist group over that stupid Video that went on Youtube, simply because these people don't know how to laugh at themselves (a great character trait in Aussies we cherish) they turned it into a savage riot. Some of the guys when facing court, refused to stand for the magistrate on the grounds it was against their culture. Another case, a muslim convert woman faces court over criminal charges, refuses to remove her face covering for the same reasons.... how can society live with that. One rule for everyone else, but another rule for them?

And no I am not racist, I just abhor extremism of any kind or colour

 

well said mel and youre last line is brilliant

 

thankyou Wobs

 

Melanie

The majority of people that move to another country do 'fit in' / 'blend in' etc etc etc.
There are a few that do not.
Because one or two - perhaps a hundred do not feel integrated etc it's time to send them all home?
There are many Aussies that do not like the native culture of what we call Australia.
Why don't they all FOff home?
There are a few extremist Muslims here - doesn't mean I want to send all Muslims home.

Think about it.

 

OdonII

I agree, a vast majority do fit in here and many of them of the muslim faith. But sadly here they are in the minority. Recently I lived in western Sydney before we moved last February; we were in the heartland of a large Middle Eastern and Muslim community. In our street where we lived, we were only one of two families of around a hundred homes of Australian background, with the exception of one family from Hong Kong. When I had my 25th Birthday, my mum sent invitations around simply because in her naivity she thought that's what good neighbors do. The only people who came, were those across from us, the Chinese people and one family next door who were Turkish. I grew up with the kids of that last family, they are as Aussie as I am and their views mirror my own. If you don't like where you are living, why live there at all. I think that is a simple question

Another point to this neighbor thing and a part of the reason we moved. We were constantly harassed by others around us, because we had a swimming pool and they were 'offended'. I was even called names (slut is one of them) because I washed my car on our own front lawn in my swimmers...it was a one piece....

 

Melanie_86

Anybody that doe not feel comfortable in a particular culture should question why they are there. But you seem to be saying the whole lot should be sent home regardless if they 'mingle' or are 'proper' Aussies. Then you say if they kept to their own it would be ok. Make up your mind. Australia is decades behind countries such as the UK. You have barely found your own identity.

 

A vast majority are in a minority?

 

I don't recall once saying they should be sent home. What I have said is, if you don't like the place where you are living, why stay. There is a big difference in that statement. I did not either say if they kept it to their own, I think you have again misread me. I said people of certain cultures keep to their own and that is not okay. If I went to live in say Malaysia, I would not be able to comfortably try and keep my Australian culture with me, I would feel isolated and eventually I would see my position as untenable and have to leave unless I was able to live with and among the society in which I moved to.

As for your last quote, I find it rather amusing coming from someone living in the UK. Lets see, riots, bombings, civil unrest. Yeah I guess if we are decades behind you we're kind of lucky aren't we.

and your second quip. You seem to like twisting words around don't you. Let me re-quote what I said

I agree, a vast majority do fit in here and many of them of the muslim faith. But sadly here they are in the minority.

In saying that, I was speaking of migrants in general. It is the sector of the Muslim community that is having difficulty fitting into our society. Is that clear enough for you?

 

Melanie_86

Have I taken this out of context?
Be specific, then.
A minority of Muslims.
The vast majority of Muslims.
If the vast majority outweigh the minority - then suggesting they all should go home does not make sense.
You seem to be saying that you have a vast experience of a tiny minority.

It is true that many people move to another culture, do not integrate but also do not cause any issues. So, not going to your party is irrelevant.

I know what you said: 'I agree, a vast majority do fit in here and many of them of the Muslim faith. But sadly here they are in the minority. '

Are you quibbling over saying 'many of them'? Are you saying the vast majority of Muslims do not integrate? I would say that is false.

The vast majority of people that have decided to kill others have used a lack of integration etc as an excuse.

 

a majority of the muslims do fit in...and the muslims are the minority class.

it isnt rocket science. you have to read it as its written not take each individual part of the sentence as a part on its own.

 

I think you do have to dissect what a person has said because some people are not straight frwd. They hide what they really think behind acceptable language. I am just trying to see what she really means.

 

you cannot form a logical argument by picking out individual statements from a discussion without quoting the entire text verbatim in its complete context.

1/ I said the vast majority, being migrants in general

2/ in that section there is the Muslim element, being the minority

3/ that part of the community, has a small minority at present in our country who are wonderful people. It is the majority of the Muslim community who do not wish to fully integrate with our society

for you to say that is false, means that you either live here which you don't. Or you are basing your perception on the experiences in Britain. Which does not correlate at all, since the complexities of our problem are vastly different to yours.

By the way I am a aspergers sufferer and I do not always communicate as well as I wish to

 

you're doing pretty darn good so far. :2thumbsup:

 

fank you NG my parents drummed it into me..Mel! speak your mind, don't let the turkeys get to you Lol

 

Folks are concerned about sending muslims back to their home. Perhaps a more logical question should be ; why have immigration policies became so lax? An isolationist foreign policy combined with impermeable border security and selective entrance requirements insure national well being.

 

It happened here Rip, because the current Government over her tore apart border protection and immigration policies that worked. The limp wristed agenda driven Greens party had somehow gotten the Labor party by the short and curlies; and setting policy in exchange for certain agreements in allowing bills to passed through parliament. That arrangement will soon come to an end thankfully and the mistrust both of those parties have put into the Australian people will hopefully see them on the fringes of politics for a very very long time.