War on Terror-why arn't we winning ?

Are you not effectively gettin' out in 2014?

I thought you guys were becoming 'energy independent'. Isn't it 'about the oil' a rather simplistic notion after so many years not having no control over it? (or am I wrong?)

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...n-robert-fisk-met-him-in-almatig-1465715.html

Anti-Soviet warrior puts his army on the road to peace: The Saudi businessman who recruited mujahedin now uses them for large-scale building projects in Sudan. Robert Fisk met him in Almatig

When did he decide terrorism was a good idea?

US and Taliban to open direct peace talks in Qatar

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22957819

 

Thanks for that odonII ,the articles an interesting read considering all thats happend since. Bin Laden comes across as a shy & modest man.nothing bellicose about him. Certainly no sign of the'Terrorist Leader' nor anyones idea of a psychopath. What it takes to willfully become a terrorist truely bewilders me even given all we've read on this thread.
You beat me to it with news of the Taliban peace talks! Though its likely to be a long bumpy road I'm glad its happening. Maybe Individuals question as to what the terrorist are demanding,what are their terms for settlement, might at least be partly answered soon?

 

jesus,bobby sands an bin laden are having dinner together in the spirit world.

 

You are wrong, we've been covertly controlling who where and why oil flows through the gulf for as long a they've been pumping it, we stir up shit here, install a puppet dictator there...no I'm not going to provide links to the whole complicated mess, If you want references I'll refer you to a Chomsky lecture where he give historical examples out the ass with more citation that you can shake a stick at.
And as for energy independance, its a lie. People think opening new oil fields here will bring down the price of gas for instance...Wrong, the investor wants the market value for that oil and indeed it all goes on the world market. Nobody's going to invest in these things and just give it away cheap, they want top dollar. Do you blame them? Not if you're a good capitalist you don't.

 

Gongshaman

Ok. How has the oil been covertly controlled through the Gulf?
It seems I will have to revert to something Chomsky mentioned in one of his OPINION pieces.
All I really asked is: who is in cont' of the oil?
I would have thought some actual ref' to who is, is fair.

He has said:

Negotiations are under way for Exxon Mobil, Shell, Total and BP — the original partners decades ago in the Iraq Petroleum Company, now joined by Chevron and other smaller oil companies — to renew the oil concession they lost to nationalisation during the years when the oil producers took over their own resources. The no-bid contracts, apparently written by the oil corporations with the help of U.S. officials, prevailed over offers from more than 40 other companies, including companies in China, India and Russia.

That means to me, large oil companies that are best placed to run such franchises are going to bid.

What I have read since is the relevant oil ministry was placing too much of a price on this and no significant oil company took them up.

http://www.dw.de/china-nudges-us-out-of-iraqi-oil-boom/a-16856443

Ultimately it wasn't up to the Americans, is the point.

 

Oh, I see. Ok. I think you might find the people that really hate you are Americans.

 

from the article odon

like asking rats if there's still any cheese.

If you are going to call Chomsys lectures"opinion pieces" then you've obviously never listened...as I remember the last time I tried to turn you on to Chomsky you said he bores you and you couldn't make it through the lecture...so there ya go

 

Mmm,when I said us I meant the the West generally. Why would the Americans hate me?

 

they must be paying you well are they?.do they pay you by the hour or by the lie?

 

I dont hate you , Summer.

 

Gongshaman

He doesn't hold my attention, no.
I just see him with lots of books behind him - pontificating.
I would say it is his own opinion - however informed he might or might not be.
It just sometimes feels like he is biased.
Which if you are asking me to agree with him, or accept what he is saying as accurate - then I'm not always going to.
So I'm now left with the answer: 'I'm not going to provide links to the whole complicated mess, If you want references I'll refer you to a Chomsky lecture where he give historical examples out the ass with more citation that you can shake a stick at.'
Key word: Historical.
'It's the Oil, stupid!' 2008

When I say oil independence, that doesn't necessarily mean I mean cheap oil.

 

Of course, he's an Anarcho-socialist, he's biased against the kind of Imperialist capitalism currently being practiced by the US.

Well then whats the point of being oil independent? Who cares where the oil comes from, it's nothing but a commodity on world market after all.

It wouldn't matter any way, even if we had alternative energy like solar and didn't need anyones oil, we would still be there. Controlling the flow of oil is an incredibly powerful strategic maneuver, it lets us exert control over our adversarys.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBI9mC77igo"]Chomsky explains who U.S. leaders work for and what they have done. - YouTube

 

Yeah, when ever I want to know what is actually going on in the world, with out any bias - I always turn to an Anarcho-socialist to let me know what is really going on.

Erm, to not be reliant on others?

I see lots of books behind him...

 

Hell, I don't hate you either pensfan. Its that odonII trying to trigger an international incident !

 

If I understand this correctly it says that those who hate US the most are Americans themselves.

The posts that followed were misunderstandings/miscommunications.



Did I get it right, odonII?

 

I meant there was misunderstandings/miscommunications on my part.

If I were to try and de-tangle it, I meant that the biggest critics of America are Americans, imho. I didn't take into account Summerhill isn't American and/or living in America

 

All clear :2thumbsup:.