War isn't a part of human nature.

I disagree. it is a topic of philosophy, all science tells us you are an animal. you claim not to be. I asked, philsophically speaking, is it ok for a vegan ( a philosophy) to eat your heart and buttocks. this entire thread is phiosophy, and I am thus justified in responding to your posted comment, you are the one skirting the issue.

 

crappie go easy on him
this is like a boxing match between Muhammad Ali and Clay Aiken =/

 

crappie?

 

ahah, I meant rummy

I get the names mixed up cause they are both 2 syllable nicknames and end in a y/ie sound :tongue:

plus, both of you are pretty cool dudes

 

This topic just keeps getting better, doesn't it. LOL.

Your original query was "can vegans eat you with a clear conscience?"

First of all, before we proceed. What is conscience?

Define it. Can you measure it? Where is it?

Now, is this topic still purely science, religion or philosophy?

Who's skirting the issue? nah, nah, nah, nah. LOL.

 

gotcha

 

fucking awesome comeback.
I cannot define conscience. I feel it in my life as whether or not I feel guilty for any given action. Maybe a bad definition, but its what I meant in my question regardless.
Now that we have a basis for my question, answer it using that guideline.
are you animal, vegetable, or mineral?

 

I think a conscience is a type of talking insect =D

 

Find an animal, vegetable or mineral who can type in their response to your question using a mouse, keypad, and computer via an Internet connection, and you have your answer.


My cat said, "Meeoww" by the way. lol.

 

Almost all insects don't have the ability to use a computer, although some insects end up in badly written software ... hmm


Seriously, war is not part of basic human nature, people.
War is a choice, it is just one possible reaction to our ability to think.

 

Thank you mandell, I don't understand why some of you are so unwillingly to let go of war, in theory (obviously it is a very real thing today). Why do you protect it? And why do you impose these limits on our species that has limitless power?

I mean, look at what we've created already while fighting each other, spending our resources in an inefficient manner, and giving our energies to these obsolete belief systems called religion.

If we can do what we've done in a selfish, confused, and inefficient mindset, imagine what we'll create when we are all working to benefit each other and create a better tomorrow, a true heaven on earth.

There are no rules. Natural selection fell a long time ago, and violence, selfishness (though individuality does not need to fall alongside it!) and who knows what else can be next. I'm not saying we SHOULD do away with all of these things but I believe we have the power to.

The only limits are the ones we choose to put on ourselves.

 

mandell, war is a choice yes
but our choices are based on our nature

and we are not protecting war
only attacking your reasoning (hmm what does that word 'attacking' make you think of?)

I agree that war is not a necessity
and that humans could (theoretically) have a world of peace
I agree that war sucks, and we should work for a world of peace
but war is of human nature, a very very dark side of human nature, but human nature still
(I have absolutely no clue how someone could deny that)
and to have a world of peace, it is important you recognize that, and absolutely resist an temptation to succumb to that darkness

 

Duck, to justify war claiming "it is part of human nature" is a sad excuse and a false pretext, due to ignorance of the purpose of life.
Many of us think we're human but act more animal-like.

Actually, it is not human nature to be anything other than to be a human.
A gemstone lying under layers of mud remains a gemstone.

 

Peace begins with me.

 

yes, it is not in human nature to be anything but a human
therefore we can not act more animal-like than we are
therefore war is a part of human nature
thanks for clearing that up

 

Not so.
Acting animal-like is due to ignorance.

It's the nature of animals to act like animals.
Humans have a choice.

 

every post in this thread was posted by an animal

 

I brought that up, it's no use rummy, this guy seems to have a god complex

he used buddhism to define a line between humans and animals
when truly buddhism believes we are all one....

 

We are animals, and a part of nature.

The fact we are (for now) at the top of the evolutionary chain doesn't make us less of a part of nature.

What does set us a part is our ability to think, and to have morality.

War is hell, and most likely the reason we'll stop existing as a specie.

Animals kill to survive, to eat, to protect their young.

Humens kill for fun, for money, for power, and that makes us worse then all other animals.

War is immoral, and should be stopped at all costs.

I think that, for a star, a global embargo should be placed upon any country that goes to war, or supports millitarism

 

Animals kill for fun as well, and for practice and for many other reasons. All of them for base needs, gratification.

They also kill unmercifully, they think only of bringing prey down, and not how to do that in a painless manner. At least a human can understand that an animal might feel pain, empathize with it (imagination) and bring it down with a bullet to the head (compassion), as opposed to pumping it's stomach full of lead because its an easier mark. We have that choice. Compassion, and mercy do not even enter the mind of a predator. Just look at the choices they make. They often begin feasting on animals before they've even fully killed them. The average human would at least wait until his or her prey is dead before feasting on it's innards.

So we clearly approach hunting differently than any other animal. We have free will, and it is strong enough to break free of our instincts. The disobeying of instinct is the most powerful known act in the galaxy. If a wolf is starving, you can put a strange wolf pup (maybe even one of its own) in front of it and it will devour it, yet humans are capably of refusing food and starving themselves to death in protest.

So we are beautiful. We are capable of incredible sacrifice and nobility (I mean even the invention of the concept of nobility...) that no other animal has been known to demonstrate. Show me an animal that can even prove it understands something like compassion (and don't respond with maternal instinct, which is different) before you even think of suggesting an animal that would starve itself for it's beliefs.

Yeah, you know what, human beings ARE my favorite animal on the planet because our capacity to do good has no limits. I'll take the extremely low dips and infinite peaks over a relatively flat line of cold, almost robotic, instinct. We are unique, we stand above the other animals in terms of our potential. Any animal that lacks free will has limited potential and is a slave to its instincts. Humans do not and we are only slaves to what we allow ourselves to be slaves to.

Animals are a part of nature, currently, but we have the power to break the rules. A future where a physical body is no longer necessary, the need for food, sex, oxygen, (all other limits imposed on animals and plants) is not only imaginable, but entirely plausible. Such an existence may even be necessary to explore and fully understand this universe around us.

I believe the human imagination, when unblocked, can conquer any obstacle, given the time and resources.

This is why the conservatives, hell, determinists in general irritate me so much. They put restrictions on us that don't exist except in their minds and the minds of those who actually believe them.

God? Be he Christian, Muslim, etc, he is an anthropomorphism of the universe. To me, a self aware God as a concept is about as believable as the Greek or Roman pantheon of gods. I find it extremely ironic how some find it hard to believe that the Greeks once actually believed in those myths while they still put their faith in an organized religion. It's the same damn concept! What really gets me are those who are die hard Christians but can't fathom the beliefs of Muslims, the Jewish, Scientologys, etc. and actually go to war with them over it. It's been going on since civilization began but to me it looks like kids fighting over who has the best toy.

This might hurt a lot of feelings and raise some protests but if I could have one wish it wouldn't be world peace but to eliminate the concept of religion and replace it with existentialism for everyone. We are here, now deal with it. There is no why!

Stop making up these fairy tales, sitting around and trying to establish some status quo that we can conform to. You're just repeating history and honestly it's starting to get pretty damn repetitive. Start making an honest attempt to fulfill your potential. You are so blinded by a search for truth that you cling to anything. Look at how people are willing to believe the most inane garbage projected by cults. I mean, so many cults have been such transparent scams and people still stake their hearts and their lives in them. As sad and hopeless those fanatics looks to you, that's how Christians, Muslims, etc look to me. I hate to be cruel but it's honest.

Faith doesn't mean anything to me, unless it's a faith in human potential. Anything else is just a low ceiling, an obstruction. You can stay under it if you'd like to, but I'm using my senses and reaching for the stars and well beyond the stars.

I got here by using my senses and turning a blind eye to the stuff that was taught to me by my government, whose existence relies on keeping me a chained and ignorant servant. I thank the US government (circa 1983-present) for feeding, housing, and protecting me and allowing me to reach this level (still limited) of enlightenment, but my primary concern will always rest in the fate of humanity. My planet is second and my country, as much as I love it and believe it to be the greatest nation on the planet, will have to settle for third.

Notice the shackles on your soul. Tear them off!