Views on suicide

Is suicide a negative right or a positive right? And do you really think that society has an obligation to, at the least, allow someone to take their own life?

Personally, I see suicide as incredibly selfish. It is an act centered solely on self. "I can't go on," "I want to die," "I hate life," etc. Everything is I, I ,I, me, me, me. It is the height of self centeredness to act in a way that will benefit yourself in spite of the great harm that the act will do to another person (friends and family). In fact, in many major secular and religious ethical constructs, suicide is considered unethical.

 

I see suicide as someone finally breaking down to the point where they think nothing can save them. Then they die and God teaches them that things are not hopeless. Some people need to die and have God save them in order to learn. Otherwise there would not be suicide.

 

When I was a teen I remember being really depressed at times. I was a Southern Baptist at the time (converted Catholic for 2 years now). The Catholic view about going to hell pretty much curtailed any suicidal thoughts. I am glad now because I love life. I think alot of those feelings come from hormones and the negative things in your life.


Now that I am a Catholic, I don't believe that everyone who commits suicide goes directly to hell. God's mercy is not to be presumed upon. There are factors such as mental illness which I believe would affect any judgment but these are just my thoughts as I haven't tested them out.

 

I don't see how suicide is selfish...Just because the pronoun used is I doesn't make it selfish. I think suicide is hasty, rash, and in most cases stupid, but I wouldn't say selfish or immoral. Suicide being illegal means your government owns you.

 

LOL

 

Of course saying "I" doesn't necessarily make it selfish. But you have to look at the motivation. Let me ask you this, does anyone commit suicide for someone else's benefit? Do the motives for suicide normally extend beyond the individual?

Also, let me emphasize that we are talking about "western" culture here. Honor-shame cultures will possibly have a different view of suicide. For example, committing suicide after extremely shameful acts was *expected* in some cultures in order to regain personal and familial honor. However, even then, committing suicide to escape reprocussions or situations could be seen to be shameful.

I would agree that it is hasty and rash. Why would you imply, though, that some times it *isn't* stupid? Why wouldn't you say that it is immoral? Is is not the premeditated murder of a human being?

Not at all. The government no power to buy or sell you. It cannot dictate your actions so long as you obey it's laws. Those laws are designed to protect the interests of the population at large. Suicide being illegal means that the government thinks that suicide is detrimental to the well being of the citizens it governs.

 

Sometimes it isn't stupid. People with lifelong impairments or diseases may decide that they don't want to live in pain any more. That kind of self-inflicted euthanasia, I would think, is usually well thought-out and considered. It's not a spur-of-the-moment-I'm-feeling-depressed kinda thing, it's a decision made over a good span of time with the knowledge that chances are good that their condition isn't going to improve.

I don't think it's immoral to take your own life. It's your body, your life, your soul, your whatever, and you can do what you want with it.

I don't think it's the government's place to say you don't have the right to do what you want with what is yours more than anything else is yours.

 

i think most people kill themselves because they think theyre weighing everyone else around them down. thats not selfish

 

maybe not most

 

i dont think there really is a hippie standpoint... after close friend of mine killed herself i m in no position to tell someone that they should be allowed to kill th emselves if they want... can always get help... times always get better.

 

But even then, it is escapism. Trying to avoid consequences or pain. And what is the underlying motivation to escape? Selfishness.

This doesn't mean that we don't feel for those who are suicidal. We definitely care about them (which is kind of a slap in the face on the occasions when they kill themselves anyway). We want what is best for them. We love them as best we can and we want to help them. We want to ease their pain.

We should not, however, allow our emotions and sense of human sympathy and empathy override our reason. Suicide revolves around the suicidal person. If it didn't, then why would so many people who were starved for attention do it (or attempt it)? We need to recognize it's motivations and observe the effects that suicide has on the society.

There are so many angles from which we could approach it, but let's look at it under the major ethical theories:

Utilitarianism: Suicide is condemned.
Categorical Imperative: Suicide is condemned.
Ethical Egoism: Condemned again.
Social Contract: Possibly allowed, though not likely.
Divine Command: Possibly allowed.

Only a subjectivist/relativist position has any real support, but relativism is so plagued with inconsistencies and incoherencies that I doubt anyone would serioulsy want to claim it as being the actual case.

Just about any moral theory one can propose agrees that suicide is wrong.

You seem to be waffling on the issue. If you say that you have a right to do X, then you are granting that government is involved. A right is an obligation that is placed on society on behalf of an individual. These obligations are either placed on society by government, or (as stated by the Declaration of Independence) by a divine authority which is the author of moral law. So, suicide is either a right given by God (which might be contrary to certain gods' nature and, as such would be morally wrong even if you HAVE the right to do it) or it is given by government. As such, it is *definitely* the government's place to say what rights you do and do not have.

Your thoughts on the matter are noble, but in the position you espouse simply doesn't have firm logical, moral, ethical, philosophical, or theological ground on which to stand. The best arguments I have heard for suicide have to do with economics more than anything. Even they, however, are exceedingly weak.

 

Murder in the bible refers to the destruction of the physical body.

 

No. None can destroy a temple unless God causes it to be. These decaying bodies have their usefulness, and part of their usefulness is that they are cast away at the time that God declares to be right, in the circumstances that God declares to be right (such as the crucifixion). Jesus acknowledged that his bodies destruction was part of God's plan. When Peter said "we will not let this happen" Jesus reprimanded him because he thought in the ways of men instead of God (get thee behind me, Satan).

It's like my friend said to me "So if I hit you right now, it is part of God's plan?" and I said "Yes, it is, I don't want you to hit me, but it would be God's will." He is the type that scoffs and persecutes believers. He swung at me, but I sat there, and his hand was stayed at the last moment. Everything that happens is part of God's glorious plan, including the destruction of our bodies at the time the Father has set, by whatever method God has chosen for us.

 

how about...

Personal experience: fair enough.

Did you know some sufi masters when introducing their students to the reality of suffering, ask them , once they have entered and seen...do you want to continue?. the answer decides whether the master compassionately takes their head off! that..in some respects i am sure! would be called murder.
Also a form of suicide.

if you are in a level of suffering that you just cannot bear. of course it's your right to take a chance on a happy ending.
in a way it's brave.
in a way it's sad.
in a way it's nothing to be ashamed of.

the actual thought of it though.........seems like a big distortion of fear of some mighty vengeful doctrine. people i know who killed themselves had stuff to fear. a peadophile. an adulterer. I thought about this before and came to...it wasn't nessercary to do that.. it really wasn't. forgiveness does exist in the world. even though if you were twisted and deviant. forgiveness does exist. it just isn't immediately apparant in the world. bu then if you're going to kill youself you already can't see much of that stuff.
I'd say it's sad people feel pressured to act that way.
wherever that pressure comes from.
anyway it's reality, everyone has thought at some point. [ if i wasn't in this equation this problem wouldn't be happening. ]
some people take it further. maybe they never experienced forgiveness
my head achess.....owwww. going too deep...

 

Suicide is taking the easy way out. Especially if you are religious. A religious person can just say "I'll kill myself now, and go straight to the next life where it'll be all cool." Well, it doesn't work that way. Life: you owe it to yourself.

 

i just dont get the "life is the greatest gift" thing when "life" is all we know. i bet there are mcuh greater things.

 

suicide is not an easy way out........it's a flipping huge decision with unaccountable factors to be considered. and it's everyones right to make that decision. I certainly wouldn't consider it an easy way out, if i was being held hostage....and tortured and raped mercilessly each day..if i came across a knife and then had to make that choice..of which was the greatest likely suffering...If i thought i couldn't handle the coming abuse and years of trauma afterwards..if i couldn't handle that. I'd have to make a choice wether i'd trust in taking my own life to be relieved. and what a choice that would be.
You can't just imagine the levels of torture and anguish some people find themselves in.
the idea that anything is unforgiveable/a sin/ punishable, in some way is jst propaganda used for control purposes.


I'm not as afraid of suicide as i am the reasons for why it was happening.

 

A permanent solution for a temporary feeling.

I've had to stop people from doing it and I've lost someone to it... It's not an easy thing for me...

 

When Kane killed Able God was not happy, it was not what God wanted. To believe that God put murder in the heart of Kane is a lie that is not supported in scripture. Why would God be angry with Kane if He was only doing what God wanted? The fact that God knows murder will happen does not mean He supports the act. Murder is not God's will. God allows the free will of men to murder each other and again this is not what God desires for mankind.

 

ive always wondered why God would let murder happen if he is all powerful, but i just though maybe God doesnt even see death as a horrible thing, like humans do. maybe he doesnt realize the pain that murder brings to everyone. well he realizes it, but knows that it isnt important in the grand scheme of things. Maybe he sees everyones death as Jesus' death, and he doesnt want to hear people asking him why he let it happen.